The Mindbuzz

MB:123 with Dustin Garcia

January 30, 2023 Season 3 Episode 123
The Mindbuzz
MB:123 with Dustin Garcia
Show Notes Transcript

Gill hangs out with Dustin Garcia, T' (The Dark Prince of Comics), Artist, MFA in Comics, ✒️Artist & Art Educator🖌️. Illustrator for @walocomic #communityisart 🇳🇮🇨🇺

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"King without a Throne" is performed by Bad Hombres

King without a Throne Official Music Video

King without a Throne

foreign this is the Dark Prince of comics T also
known in the mortal world as Dustin Garcia we are here in the buzz of the
Mind the Mind Buzz The Hive of all hives the world and the elements together in
the great void to which stares back at you sequential art and comic books I'm
so excited ah Dustin what's up man oh you know up and
down here and there everywhere um but I'm here I'm here and it's a pleasure to be here with everyone and um
so just want to thank you for having me first yeah no worries thanks for coming on and doing this dude appreciatively
it's an honor we're finally here we're doing it yeah it feels good yeah thanks for coming out dude uh we've been
talking about this for a minute so it's been anticipation from both sides
anticipation my favorite verb we're a little bit before we were uh hit
the record button we're talking about how um we fact check and I had to fact check okay so Amber was telling me about
somebody that had a master's degree in comic books and that's something we have
to just look up what kind of jerk would say that without meaning it I mean yeah right it's like so off the wall that
it's not even in somebody's imagination I mean comics and mfas I mean come on
the two just don't mix so what's a what's a MFA an MFA is an abbreviation
for masters of Fine Arts so if you liked going to college you can go to college again for four more years and get more
credentials about your legitimacy and Academia and that's what a masters does it also increases your chances of
getting particular jobs in the education field and other opportunities probably by a marginal percentage so yeah else
I'm going to talk like that when I talk about academics marginal we we need to get him a um a pipe and and oh my God a
fireplace where did the fireplace come from I don't know he just came in and there was an automatic fireplace I mean
fireplace makes sense with that voice I mean all I need is a robe and some you know like sock guards with like going up
to my knees and stuff with my pretentious accent yeah my New England accent yes I did not know that you can
get a master's degree in comic books I didn't is it comic or comic books can't
explain it yeah explain it to me so yeah no um so the way that it went about is one of my friends uh shout out to Brina
Nunez and my very good friend uh Lawrence Lindell who just recently got included to uh one of the biggest and
one of the first lgtbq uh comic book documentaries um no straight lines
um so we were living all in the Bay Area at the time I was living in Berkeley and uh I had known about the California
College of the Arts but two of my friends uh both listed into the school around 2017 and I was very interested in
going and uh you know a former partner of mine had really pushed me to do it and I was so reluctant at first but I
went and I found out that you can get an MFA in comics and I always was like interested in getting an MFA since I
have a bachelor's degree in it too um but when I found out you could get an MFA and doing research on what you know
some MFA programs look like um you know I was able to really get a really great opportunity to like get a
chance to focus the school is called CCA California College of the Arts and their comics division program is very special
and unique uh since it has a lot of people who are also established artists but also establish academics in the
field scholar research of comic books graphic novels and a new field that's emerging in the comic book studies World
which is graphic medicine so um yeah and I was there for two years because they have a really great
Residency program there that's low residency so you go for a summer and then you go uh for the rest of the year
remotely wherever you are so you have that kind of space to create but also interact with professionals and giving you mentoring and stuff so it's an
excellent program so yeah that's how I got into it and uh it was a life-changing experience quite honestly
I mean I was able to really for the first time in my life like Focus full time on creating the stories and
exploring the art that I wanted to create um since like you know my BFA program at the time was a little bit complex art
school has I have a very love-hate relationship with it and this totally redeemed it so it was a really great
experience yeah so you said graphic medical graphic graphic medicine graphic medicine yeah
so so graphic medicine uh is a new field of study that is being recognized in the
Academia world uh comic books have kind of been seen as this kind of you know like throwaway 99 Cents trash you know
type of art form by you know most masses until most recently it's kind of fluctuated as an art form but it's never
been really recognized until recently in the last I would say like 10 years in you know Academia it's been put out
there and talked about but it hasn't been really respected at to the level because now there's direct evidence
showing that comic books have uh not only mental health benefits but also benefits to which
um you know doctors and medical workers with their direct relationships with patients and having patients draw and
articulate their experiences in the hospital or whatever what they're experiencing medically to have more of
an empathetic approach and direct connection with their patients so they better understand what's going on in their mind what their experience rinsing
and there's a book on this too that anyone can read online it's on Amazon graphic medicine Manifesto uh highly
recommend it can you pull that up what do you have up there what do you have up right there right now so I have um the
California College of Arts right yeah the program this is the school uh the MFA program uh is the comics program for
CCA so the MFA in comics which is great though because they're starting to have a BFA program uh for Comics as well
since the MFA program was so successful since I would say about if not all but like 90 of the people that I went to
school with have all been published or established somehow including myself wow so yeah it's pretty sweet there it is
right there so yeah though and it's cool our pamphlet was drawn by one of our former students and so the the pamphlets
actually fully Illustrated and tells you all the information when you get there oh that's awesome dude and yeah and
there's like a Showcase of all the work that's been done my homie Lawrence is on the very right right there yeah that one
right there um shout out to him that's a brother of mine known since uh our we went to school together actually we
graduated in the same class so yeah we've been we graduated the same year too when we were in our bachelor's
program so yeah but yeah it's there's such a variety of stuff in this program it's very much
centered on personal expression really experimental stuff we even learned how
to do coding and you know doing digital approaches techniques and stuff to kind of just find out new experimental ways
of telling stories online or telling stories through you know current media since Comics are able to be translated
in most any platform technologically outside of print you know though I still love print I do think that there's so
much room for digital Comics though yeah uh the book is called graphic medicine
yes so yeah as I said it's an Incredible Book uh they're definitely deep in the
academic jargon um but if you're able to see past that I really encourage anyone
who like to know a little bit more about what comic books are doing for a lot of
people in the mental health and medical field and why I think it's relevant so it's a you know it's relatively small
but growing uh movement of artists and intellectuals really trying to you know
put comics in a place to which they can become more you know culturally recognized as a very powerful art form
since they've had a very fluctuated troubled history as in our form especially United States so
yeah I hope this proves to you that I have an MFA
we're getting there oh I love it I love it stay skeptical
folks dude so uh through this program did you learn like the history of comics
yeah no um so I'm a big nerd in general as you probably would have guessed um
and just you know doing the art thing for so long but Comics are you know a history that I've been studying
independently uh since I you know started you know getting into them deeply and more personally in you know
high school so like high school was the year the years to which I really started recognizing it as a important medium for
me to like really express my my not just my creative ideas but my kind of
creating a a reflection of my inner experiences emotionally and kind of
putting that in a story so when I became interested in art form like anything I get interested in I want to dissect it
as much as possible learn as much as possible absolutely I've been studying comic history since I was like 16 years
old just on my own okay and when I went to college uh I was able to really like they had a great library because the
people at the time who were running the library in my undergrad program um you know had a really good long
collection of comics but not just like mainstream Marvel DC superhero stuff they had like independent stuff graphic
novels historical stuff just a grid variety of stuff from even Japan and Europe and uh there's been more
documentaries and books uh you know studying the field of the history of comics and its relevance because it's
had such a cultural impact uh not only uh in the art form in the creative
spaces but also culturally as you know American culture has you know has evolved over the last century so yeah
but um to answer the question yeah I we did get a really good Deep dive into
Comic history in the MFA program um and I was really nerding out because I was able to add like little footnotes
with my professor since like oh did you know that this artist also did this you know this guy also did this so I was like an unofficial assistant professor
so I mean I was just totally nerding out and it was great because we did a little
um action where at the end of our first semester somebody writes like a compliment to you with a drawing and someone told me I can't believe how much
you know about comic book history oh that's awesome so that would be my credential I suppose
what was the first comic that you picked up do you remember that see that that
question is always hard for me to answer because I don't remember I can go back
as far as when I was an infant and wearing Batman underwear and Spider-Man t-shirts um because you got you know I'm
sure you might remember too like in the 90s it was a it was a huge like you know
speculation industry at that time you know independent comic books were becoming more mainstream with you know
companies like image you know leaving uh DC and you know you got Mark Silvestri and you know all the you know big boys
of that early era doing all this wild stuff with Image Comics and that would turn into top cow comics and then you
know there was just all these smaller like bigger company like smaller companies that becoming huge and making tons of money because the speculative
Market until the crash in you know around 94 I would say um but wait what crash uh well there was
a comic book crash in the 90s because of the speculative bubble because there was just you know so much content being made
different types of content and what ends up happening so I go uh yeah Comics
books got oversaturated yeah yeah because uh there was a time where you
know I remember very distinctly when I was getting into Comics a lot of it was going on around the time where they were
everywhere I mean comic books around the 80s had kind of this you know Revival because of you know uh what was called
the the comics code which you know made comic books really crummy for about like half a century United States
um you know but by the time you hit the 80s people stopped caring and you get a more you know variety of you know
different types of you know um you know availability of comic books
that was unprecedented you know so comic books were literally in markets you know like grocery stores you know 7-Elevens
uh there's more comic book shops popping up and you know as a kid you would see those things all the time and I would
just pick them up you know what I mean and um you know and you know in another funnier uh aspect of that being raised
in a religious family I also read religious comic books really they have those oh yeah I'm sure you've seen them
um so Veggie Tales there's all those things yeah of them calls so the only one that matters to me is one of the
most problematic ones so there's this is my main man uh Jack Chick so Jack Chick
is uh very fascinating but extremely problematic Creator so he was this lunatic that was born in the United
States but he was an extreme uh uh he was part of this very like weird
subsidiary extremist uh Fringe uh form of religious Comics uh based on his like
unshakable faith and very you know binary way of seeing morality I mean this guy anything that wasn't anything
he liked he put it in his books and made it part of a conspiracy but you've probably seen under these like little
comic books that a lot of uh Christians passed out during you know Halloween and they have like warning you know the
Halloween's a demonic uh type of really you know event or religious type of thing but the fascinating thing about
these Comics is though they're they've been recognized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as being a hate group because they absolutely yeah they're hated they
but the thing that's fascinating about these books the creators long passed and so did his assistant but he he he had a
very interesting life though because one of my favorite things about reading about him because I did a presentation for him when I was in my MFA program
just about like you know because these were comic books I was only allowed to read at the time you know I was allowed
to read a lot of stuff but like things like spawn were like considered demonic yeah so I had to like read these but these are far worse because in my
opinion they showcase a lot of these narratives that the guy creates as being real things that happen to people like
their true events or something so they're very they're very well made but
they're just the worst problematic hateful religious comics and and I've
ever seen but what's crazy is they're translating hundreds of different languages they're wow one of the most most popular comic books out there and
have made a lot of money and a lot of churches still use them which is very interesting but yeah but like those were
like early memories I had of reading comics and that's what got me interested in Comics but
um I would say you know there's two moments that I would say are probably the most pivotal for me so around the
time when I was in sixth grade in the early 2000s um bookstores like Barnes and Noble started doing Mass purchases and you
know Imports of manga from Japan oh okay and at this time too there was a lot of uh archival books of like past popular
comic books of the 50s and 60s coming out um things like Garfield I read very prominently and things like Calvin and
Hobbes were like a huge deal for me in the Sunday strips were something I dived into a lot in the Sunday newspaper since
like you know they were big paper and stuff but when I started reading manga in sixth grade I I it kind of just took
me to a whole another place uh because it was around the time in middle school when I was really getting into like anime you know Japanese culture and
manga had just this very different uh look to it it's very different how they
approach the stories the content the way it's drawn it in my opinion at that time
time I mean this is such a sixth grader thing it's like the mindset I had at the time was like Japanese Comics are
superior to Western Comics Japan all the way you know and that's how I felt for a
long time um but that changed um you know uh when I hit uh sophomore
year and I was introduced to what I considered two of the most important books I ever read growing up which is uh
Johnny the homicidal mini by jonan Vasquez who's also the creator of Invader Zim he was actually a comic book artist oh before he got a show pitched
with Nickelodeon um and uh the other book would be James o'bar the crow which was the graphic
novel the movie was inspired by with Brandon Lee rest in peace um those two books were very important
to me um because they were the first Comics that had what I could see clearly as the
the author having their their heart and soul in the story and the character it
was you could tell it was inspired by real experiences at least emotionally and I had never seen anything like that
at the time you know wait hold on are you telling you're telling me that the crow that's a manga no excuse me so I
jumped for manga so manga was something I got in my middle school and then uh the crow was something I got later on into when I was oh okay my Affinity for
Western Comics uh re-blossomed uh because I by that point I was kind of disinterested in superhero stuff because
I found it to be very formulaic and uninteresting um inspiring here and there especially with books like you know Watchmen and
you know some other stuff like All-Star Superman and you know even Batman you know some of the Batman stuff that was
made in the 80s and you know like The Dark Knight Returns but what I liked about this was the most important thing
of it wasn't just the reflection that these artists were creating content that was very personal it was also the fact
that there was Independent Artists out there doing their own thing and creating their own stories and they were able to
publish their Visions you know what I mean um for the most part unfiltered unapologetically and you know
uncompromised you know as the great as Ed piss score would say Outlaw Comics yeah so are there different types of
comics like genres I guess you can say I mean yeah I mean it's a it's always had
a different types of mediums uh as far as excuse me genres as far back as the
early 20th century I mean one of the things people forget is that there was a time where superheroes weren't really
the centerpiece of comic book culture before that in the early you know as early as the early 20th century strips
were the thing I mean that's what was printed because you're talking about a time where print media was the number
one form of entertainment because it was the most accessible it was the most affordable for everyday people the film
Citizen Kane the character that's based on um you know Kane fought William Foster
Kane was based on William Randolph Hearst which was this um you know to put it lightly a lunatic
that had a very big newspaper in San Francisco and he published a lot of what
would become consider groundbreaking comic book material because his stuff was the most popular because he was able
to make a newspaper that was affordable but he was also one of the earliest innovators of something we would call yellow journalism which was a Prelude to
what we call fake news to this day so it's just interesting Comics have always been in the Forefront of counterculture
early culture pop culture as well and uh you know strips were the thing and it
wasn't until like around the 30s when you start seeing superheroes take the place in the center stage yeah I was
going to ask that like when when did superhero and Superman uh like superheroes like Superman come into I
would say like you know well from what I've seen so the research that I've done
um uh there's a couple things that you could argue were early superhero stuff Japan has been said to make some of the
first you know so-called superhero stuff um I believe there's a character called the Golden skull that predates Superman
but at least I think 10 years I don't don't quote me on that but I know that the golden School at least predates
Superman but I'll look that up I gotta see that yeah so Superman and golden School the golden skull yeah so the
golden skull I believe is the name there's there's a Japanese name for it right there but
um so it's not Superman the golden school it's just called the Golden skull so the golden skull was a Japanese character created that time so
um but you know Comics didn't really start bringing superheroes into the fourth run around until around the early
1930s when um you know uh um uh Simon Joe suster I believe uh
created uh the you know first superhero comic so that's not the correct one you'll probably want to put manga after
that yeah so he so this character in particular
from one I understand so yeah there he is right there that's one of his uh appearances and stuff and so yeah the
one right there on the bottom row where he's like looking up and stuff so go to all because I want to see the uh the the
date oh you know what I think I might not be the golden school might be the golden bat try that excuse me yeah the
golden bat I got so much see this is what happens when you're like such a nerd you got all these different names little details wrong and then everyone
starts questioning your credibility you can do the anime but it's originally a manga uh I would say look for the manga
if you can um you know this character was uh very popular at his time
um so you know he he was originally because yeah 1947 which is when I
believe uh later stuff came in but Superman came around the early 30s but he predates Superman I think
substantially um but yeah he was the type of character that would fight you know giant monsters he would fly around and protect people
uh that's not that one no that's probably the bottom left one right there so it says golden Batman yeah to the
left right there so the very left image so this is we don't have any images it looks pretty cool yeah he's a cool
character I mean he was like you know he he's a demon that comes back to basically bring order to the world and
oh you know not very much in the same vein of like superhero but yeah you know he's uh he's an interesting character
he's almost like an anti-hero and he's an important character yeah in um comic book history so so this is what 1947
this guy can't say earlier than that I I'm not quite sure on the exact date but I believe yeah his appearance right
there in 1930 and Superman I believe didn't make an appearance until 1932. yes okay yeah so if not at before around
almost the exact same time okay let's look up Superman now alrighty this is
where we we test the prince's Darkness Superman uh first issue yeah yeah so I
believe his Action Comics uh I can't remember the number yeah first issue first appearance you could probably put
either one of those two but yeah I mean there's there's a very deep uh you know
history of comic books you know in The Human Experience 1938 so okay predates him um and you know absolutely golden
bat you know is one of the first I mean he flies around he has super powers he fights monsters and this is from Japan
this was a character from straight from Japan I mean Japan has a very different um history of comics because after the
you know the the bombings of Hiroshima Nagasaki in Japan had to really rebuild its its entire economy from the ground
up uh the term escapes me but there were these popular types of activities that
were going on at the time one of my favorite artists uh who did this really great manga called uh uh Barefoot gen
which is an account of his he was actually a survivor of the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima or Hiroshima I
believe or not one of the two he was saved by an eight-foot wall but he used to see the the this time in the early you know post-war Japan there was a lot
of random people coming around with these like different types of print slides and basically these would be
early alludes to things like anime and early manga which would influence people like ASO asamo tezuka who grew up in
post an early uh Imperial Japan in post-war Japan and they would watch these and be inspired to draw stories
based on these random storytellers that just comes wagons and these like images they would insert on these blocks and
like change them with the story and do voice acting and performances so Comics are a huge huge uh part of just you know
culture and Imagination in the public um and it's especially now it's become so much more socially acceptable than it
was you know 40 years ago you know so I can go on forever about it I feel like I'm
yeah when I decided to choose Comics as my immediate I only had one thing
so yeah as as you could see I mean I could go on forever about you know comments and just just their importance
in my life and importance in a lot of my friends and people that I think you know I think it's a bridge to literacy it it
stimulates the part of a brain I think that really encourages in between of imagination that is provided an
imagination that is interpreted you know which I think is where the literary literary aspect of it comes from so yeah
keep going oh my God [Laughter]
no when did you decide that you're like you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna do this I'm gonna actually go
to school and and get an MFA in comics yeah well 16 uh when I was 16 uh after
reading you know John the hamasana maniac and um uh the crow I I just realized like this is what I want to do
for my life like there's no other medium and art form that I love more um it was just something so accessible
and personal um that I was able to really just like take home and I already knew from you
know a team that I wanted to go to art school and just become a professional artist or you know and tell my own
stories you know and um I'm sorry how supportive was your family like when you yeah told them that you
were gonna you wanted to do that yeah so um I I have to say um you know shout out
to my parents you know uh for always being supportive of what I do you know my parents come from a different generation I'm a first generation that
next person or Latin or Latin or whatever you want to call it you know my dad's a Cuban Refugee my mom was born
here but you know grew up in a Nicaraguan family in Pacoima and my dad grew up in Bill Gardens you know and you
know and basically in the 70s and stuff and uh you know as different as their experience were you know as hard-working
parents you know my uh my opportunity to just be able to ex be accepted as an
artist I think is something that I would definitely consider you know a privilege and is not very common you know and I'm
very grateful for that and they've always been supportive it's changed back and forth over the years obviously because you know as you grow older
different responsibilities come up and you know certain things are perceived a certain way but at the end of the day
I've always been supported not only by my parents but my community to continue to do the things I love to do and part
of that has been also you know learning to become a teacher in that passion of
you know creativity but also sharing the in the the wisdom the passing the Baton if you will to create that accessibility
and excitement for the Next Generation I I was just gonna ask you about that like how do you I mean
people don't know right but we know like you teach my nephew right yeah shout out
to Mateo what's up but how how like how different like I
because I think of myself back in the 90s and yeah yeah we had things we had certain shows and they were coming up
and everything but I feel like kids now have like this like huge range of like just things that
they can watch and see yeah do and everything like how do you think it's like so different now teaching a kid
like then versus I mean obviously you didn't teach anyone back in the 90s but you know what I mean like do you think
that these kids creativities are a lot more what's the word I want to say like
do you think they're more creative now because they see so much or do you think it kind of seen so much kind of blocks
creativity uh I think that's a good question I think that um it's not a matter of what I think
it's a matter of how um which is where you know my teacher mine comes in because
um I I grew up in a generation to which you know technology was becoming much more you know dense with with content I
mean I come from the era where YouTube was just starting you know um I was a teenager when the internet was like a
2.0 and there was like finally things like streaming content you know you could read stuff online that was much
more high definition in images than you could in the early 90s with dial up and I think that even then there was still
this oversaturation of content but it's nowhere near what it is now where we
grew up in a generation where we went outside and did stuff outside of Technology kids now have grown up with
it with the internet as being a fact of life before it was something that was new introduced to us but now with the
Advent of Technology creating this accessibility I think that it's not a matter of what is accessible it's a
matter of what are we teaching our kids to do with this content and what are we using it for because this content is
made for one purpose it's to be consumed it's to be watched it's for your attention and your eyeballs equals money
so when I teach my students I I think about less about how are they being
creative with the content that they're watching and try to figure out how can we take what content they're watching
and use it as inspiration for them to create their own stories and the way I go about that is by creating it in a way
that utilizes the technology available today which is much more accessible than it was when I was growing up and finding
ways to make it simple and you know and accessible for kids to kind of articulate their ideas and I think that
Comics have a really great way of bridging kids to kind of really diving into their own imaginations and
developing their own kind of creative vocabulary and that can come from a different you know stream of different
Inspirations I mean I would be lying if I didn't know as much as I did because of all the cartoons and comic books I
consumed growing up the differences right I was shown through mentors and teachers and different people in my life
of what to do with that knowledge and that wisdom and that experience and that you know media that's forever burned in
my memory you know what I mean so so I guess like taking today's
uh today's whatever YouTube and using it as a tool for your own creativity yeah
but also um not only using it as a tool but making sure that kids uh know other
forms of expression that's outside of you know the thumbs on the screen you
know I think that nothing beats you know using a good old ink pen or brush and
making a mess you know what I mean kids love it kids really do but they need to be given the space uh not only with you
the tools that they're using but also the proper you know nourishing environment from a teacher the class
itself the space that it's in all of that correlates to how a person
especially young children you know experience their creativity um you know coming from the public
school system you know uh there there it's very dicey on how creativity is
taught it's in my opinion much more focused on memorization
um very basic uh projects that kind of you uniformly don't allow students to really Express themselves in some
capacity and so I think what really is advantageous about Alternative forms of
Education either whether it be after school programs or even YouTube content There's an opportunity for kids to find
out new ways of expressing themselves and finding the spaces to do that safely and in a way that encourages them to
explore that so um the MFA in comics is fairly new right
yes about how um I don't know exact numbers but I would say
um it probably isn't something from what I know at least uh that hasn't really 10 15 years I would say probably less than
20 years yeah because up until now there was not many schools teaching it as an
MFA there was literally from what I remember at least in my own memory and I could be wrong but there's only about two schools in the United States damn
really yeah that offered uh programs to emphasize specifically Comics there was
the cartoons uh in um a car the cartoon Institute I believe in Maryland
um and then there's the uh Joe kubert School of of Art and Design which has specifically uh a comic books
professional program but this is like more catered towards people who want to get like established in like bigger
mainstream you know industry standard stuff whereas the other uh cartoons institutions more about you know diving
into like more Memoir stuff or very like intellectual Comics stuff from like companies like fanographics or like you
know Tron quarterly which are much more like prestigious you know very intentional and very culturally uh you
know uh centered and you know you know uh comic books Let's Just Like Love and
Rockets you know which you know or like you know uh Mega hex you know which are
on the surface very like you know look like very typical comic book strips but they're very culturally dense based on
the reflections of the authors and creators so MFA in program in comics is something very new um and unprecedented
in history I mean this is something that would have been a laughing stock in the yeah 20th century quite honestly especially around the time where comic
books were on almost their last life during the 70s and 60s do you see another like art form that's
emerging uh just like you said like uh somebody's saying that you know uh a
comic book uh type of master program would be you know laughable back you know 20. do
you think that there's something else that's emerging that has a similarity to
to Comics yeah I mean and it's like a different like art form I would say animation definitely has changed a lot
um you know animation was also a medium that was dying by the time you got into the 80s until two films changed that
which was Roger Rabbit um and then another show that was called uh that was short-lived but it was very
influential for its time which was The New Adventures of Mighty Mouse uh directed by Rob actually I mean this is where you got most of the 90s Titans
that revived animation to like really got their start you know um you know tons of people worked on
that show tons of people also worked on Richard uh Richard Williams which is a well-known animated animation director
who was trained by the original nylon men the original nine animators of Disney was the head animation director
for you know um Roger Rabbit and that brought a whole new interest in animation which led to
the Renaissance the Disney Renaissance of the 90s which popularized animation until you know 3D came and hijacked the
whole show 2D is getting much more acceptable um and much more respect I would say now
than it has been in the past and animation in general you know something that was very Niche has become very um
you know popularized I mean look at a Marvel any Marvel's credit screen it's just full of names people just making
stuff yeah working on that film oh yeah definitely you know shout out to them
um even even films like that I mean because Marvel came from Comics right
and that even has changed the movie scene there's always a Marvel movie yeah
and every every month I feel like something is coming out every month I feel that
they're I don't know they're just like it's like over polluting the film
industry right now um I would definitely emphasize the word pollute um I know this might not be a popular
opinion but um quite honestly I think um Marvel super hero not specifically
Marvel but superhero movies the oversaturation of it I think is really Chuck holding the Artist Cinema
um you know I I don't want to you know come off as this you know a pretentious
nude you know because I understand people like what they like but as somebody who understands the history of
comics and how it's kind of infiltrated you know the film industry in a way I
feel that the same problems that existed for big companies like you know uh these
the the superhero genre are also pervading themselves or putting them are also interest and you know causing the
same issues in in the film industry you know um I'm a huge you know cinematic you know uh person that was really into
Cinema especially when I was in college and you know I I watched a lot of movies you know what I mean that most people
probably wouldn't be interested or you would have to have a really specific taste in film to watch but you know I
think that it's it's important to have films that challenge convention and that
challenge you know what it can be told in a story and as much as I love superheroes it's like as a kid this
would have been my wish to like come true like there's superhero movies everywhere and as an adult I kind of
regret that wish now because I feel like that's all there is that's all there is and that's all that people look forward
to and the movies are all formulaic in that sense they're they're um as Martin Scorsese put it it's like a going
through a little amusement park ride you know and it's funny because when I watch the movies I see again a lot of the same
issues that the mainstream Comics have which is why I've long largely ignored most mainstream Comics just because I
feel that the independent scenes that I've been involved with both organizing and you know as a vendor as a Cartoonist
selling my work there's much more of a personalized experience with the artists
that you see in these scenes but they're not being recognized anywhere else at all for the most part you know it's
becoming more acceptable and much more seen than it was but at the end of the day um the big two are telling the stories
that are being told about Comics you know and very few other stories are being represented and I think it's
hurting you know film in some sense because if you want Comics you know as a medium
to grow they have to exist outside they have to exist in their own terms too and
if they're only being represented in a film medium if people are only consuming comic books culture through a film
medium I find it very difficult for people to find interest in Reading you
know and it's just easier to wear a t-shirt you know of Captain America and say you know oh I love the movies and
like I understand people have issues with people who you know talk about that like well you should just let people enjoy your stuff I'm like well yeah
enjoy it but recognize that this came from a medium that you are not
participating in you know you are not experiencing and I feel that it's very
important to know where these characters come from and to experience where they
come from not only from a historical standpoint but from a literary point because I believe that is what inspires
greater art in at least in the sense of something that that's an unformulaic you
know and understanding what these characters were and where they come from in the history behind the creators of the story
um it's funny because like it reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my students um not not the not the one I'm currently
teaching Mateo but but another student of mine um you know I remember having a conversation with them about you know uh
you know I asked them like hey did you want to watch a documentary about the creator of Spider-Man sometime so much and they're like no I'm not really
interested I'm like excuse me and who is that I'm not gonna tell him his name I
love myself no no no no no who's who's the creator of the Creator yeah oh okay so that imparted me I was like I'm not
gonna show no no no no no no trash no but uh no I mean that's Up For Debate
um a lot of people debate there's still an argument to who created Spider-Man um two people created specifically it
was Stanley obviously and Steve didco um why did Stanley get all the credit for
everything okay I'm gonna just say it because you know what as much as I respect for Stan Lee for putting Marvel
on the map I think that he is way overly worshiped and if you learn a lot of hot
take ladies because I stand by this is is that Stan
Lee gets far more credit than he should and as much as I have respect for him as far as what he had involvement with the
industry if you read more about the history of Stan Lee you know behind the scenes behind the veneer there's a lot
of screwed up stuff that he did to a lot of the artists really oh yeah and you know I'm not going to go into details of
that um but that's something I really encourage people to learn about if anyone would want to learn about that I'd highly recommend the book Marvel the
untold story it's a great book uh if anything listen to the audiobook but you
know one of the biggest debates is who created Spider-Man because Stanley had the concept of Spider-Man but Steve ditko was the one that Drew the stories
you know and I ask you that yeah I've seen right now that it says that it's written by Stanley but it's
yeah but see that's the thing and that's the tricky thing about Comics as a medium is that who is the real Creator
really when one person is drawing all the ideas you know so so part of that is you know for
debate but um one of the reasons why I really push for Comics to be existing outside of the
sphere of superheroes in mainstream is because there are artists out there who are literally doing everything writing
drawing you know putting it all together and in my opinion have much more interesting things to say than a you
know atypical mainstream comic but that's not to say that those comic books are valuable either you know superhero
comics have an important place in history it's just a matter of what is who is stories are we being told and how
much are we seeing it and what is accepted you know in our culture as being the standard you know which I
think should change you know so I have two questions sure one um
uh so a lot of the Marvel movies right going back to Marvel movies I mean I'm I
fall prey to the person that watches the movies and then doesn't know that there was a comic book behind it sure sure so
are are a lot of the the movies out are those existing characters already for
the most part yeah well because Disney acquired uh Marvel I believe in the
2010s uh if I'm not mistaken and you know with that all their properties all
their IPs you know what I mean so everything you see on the screen has been created as a comic book first
um all of it you know any character you see on there I don't believe yet I haven't watched Marvel movies in almost
10 years but you know I believe up till now there has not been any characters exclusively created for the movies yet
um most of the characters if not all have all been original IPS preview you know something like even black panther
was invented in the early 60s you know what I mean by Jack Kirby you know and uh that that was a completely different
type of character of that time very reminiscent of what it is what wasn't as reminiscent of it is now but
um those characters have existed for a long time you know and uh you know what's import another thing I would say
to what was your second question before I forget my second question was like why do you think that they're not Bridging
the Gap between um comic books and the movies like why why not include your comic book Into The
Craze of the movie and the merch well the thing is that's the thing you said you said the m word merch
um especially since a big company like Disney who acquires another a relatively
big company like Marvel the incentive isn't about the medium it's about making
as much money as possible on a popular IP I mean I'm I'm not going to go on on
from Disney but that's the reality you know the reality is these companies exist to make tons and tons of money off
IPS that has always been their incentive which is fine my thing is though I don't
like the fact that Comics have become more of a supplementary medium to the
movies as opposed to standing on their own as an art form this isn't always the case with every comic book you know out
there with mainstream Comics there's plenty of examples in history even today that stand on their own Comics but the
problem is is when the comic books no longer serve as a medium that people
like to experience for themselves it's more of like oh I like this movie I'm gonna buy it and you probably never read
it you'll just have it decorated in your house which is fine you know I mean no knocking on that but but recognize that
there are people behind these books just putting as much labor and love you know
as the people on the credit scroll that you watch in these movies you know what I mean and you know if comics and comic
that's why I always encourage my students to always Branch out and try reading different stuff that they're not familiar with reading stories about
people who are either real people or other people have different stories to tell that might not look like what
you're used to um you know because most people don't consider I would say a good majority of people don't consume Comics uh that are
outside of the mainstream to Aspera which is of mostly superheroes you know and I think that's a problem wait hold
on there's there's other comic books besides superheroes absolutely but see you're joking but the thing is that's
the truth you know I think I think a lot of people forget that there exists a
whole history of comic books that have been around since the early 20th century that don't have you know half naked men
flying in here you know and there's nothing wrong with that obviously but and also people for yeah well like
that's the thing too like I'll be one thing I will say is that did you know that Wonder Woman's uh Creator was a a
male for one it was co-created by two of his polyamorous relationships and they
were a BDSM uh whoa so much of what Wonder Woman is now is inspired by BDSM
culture if you look at some of the early 1930s stuff oh yeah it's it's amazing like some of the earliest stuff if you
look at it I mean one of my professors shout out to Justin um you know he's one of my he's our he's
our gay Uncle we love from CCA and our High Street Professor but the early comics of Wonder Woman have a lot of you
know alludes to BDSM you know what I mean and yeah it's pretty crazy yeah well I mean look at her the last of
Truth is literally an allude to like you know bdsn culture which is you know like the kind of domination you know uh power
power dynamics that exist in BDSM culture like right there uh below that one know below below watch click on that
one again the one you just clicked click on it again one more time unselect it yeah and then go right there to the bottom right there yeah this one right
here so this is a perfect example of like an early early examples of this I mean this is a serum this is one where
uh Wonder Woman goes on a ceremony I can see that man and if you look at it there's a lot of you know like bondage
in this you know what I mean and there's a lot of you know reveal to me your secrets you know a lot of sexual you
know energy in these things all the redhead is just missing she's just missing a ball gag yeah basically that's
all she's missing and that's what's fascinating and and so the creators of Wonder Woman weren't were able to
articulate a lot of these desires and experiences through Comics because unfortunately Comics is one of the few
spaces that a lot of marginalized groups or you know communities can only express themselves and you know you got goofy
stuff like that you know Tyrannosaurus Rex you know you know um I think that's
the that's where uh furries stem from from furry's Wonder Woman furries actually
have a very interesting yeah they're you know furries have anemomorphic characters have existed since ancient uh
ancient India um some of these furries so furries are a subculture of people who have a love
and affinity for anthropomorphic characters which are half animal half human-like humanoid animals uh they're
often um associated with you know sexual predatory and uh weird pornographic
fetishes I used to live I had to work at the event okay I didn't know this yeah I was it was an
invitation it was I had to be at that event to work okay I don't want this to get hijacked by the furry community no
it wasn't what you're saying yeah no it was uh there was a convention at uh the
hotel that was next to the venue and we had to we had to set up the bars for
animals and I we were we had like another like small little food truck festival that was outside of it so we
had some overflow from that event so we had some people come in their costumes and yeah not come
in their costume but they they arrived they arrived in their costumes well I
will say it's one thing they definitely came yeah yeah but I don't know for sure no what
costume would you wear if you were part of it um uh me as a as a friend as a furry
um oh my God okay good both of us so I don't get Vision home um I don't know um I would probably you
know I would probably dress them as a hyena because then I could just laugh at everything all right there we go yeah
there we go I would be something with the tail oh that's pretty vague yeah no I'd be a fox a fox yes so you could be
the Fox on the Run yeah I'll be the foxy lady or something something furry
um not necessarily right I mean furry the furry community is a very broad very
Spectrum type of community it's it often gets uh I mean as somebody who used to
you'll be furry phobic when I was a teenager and getting to know several friends of mine who were for a reason
fact um I found them to be very very amazing people and you know they get
often you know categorized as like weird sexual you know fiends and stuff you know and I would say well there's people
like that in every Community yeah you know you know no Community is exempt from that but you know it it's it's so
black and white to describe him as that there's tons of people in that community that are wonderful people and they just have their interests and we just gotta
love them as they are but yeah I mean you know if furries have
been around you know since the beginning of time if you look at early ancient you know uh Hindu you know glyphs and stuff
there's tons of eludes to you know different creatures and uh if you're gonna write it it's what two R is not
like yeah you might want to be careful though you might get some NSFW stuff on there
oh there you go too bad no no and that's the thing there's nothing wrong with it what has
become wrong with it is this over representation of people in that Community being really screwed up how
did they accept sexualize this I mean you know I I I'm not an expert on it
anything could be sexual but anything yeah exactly anything can be sexualized I mean you don't even have to go to furries I mean if you look at Japan
their entire porn industry is it doesn't stop I mean there's literally buildings that have five stories of just different
types of porn um even manga has a variety of different types of fetishes that they cater
towards you know in erotic comics and stuff I I'm not sure how we got here but this is kind of hilarious this isn't
yeah and I was gonna say this isn't this isn't the first time that uh the word Japanese porn has been brought up on
this podcast yeah that guy looks like Ratatouille actually
yeah what's his name um Ramy Remy yeah that's Remy goodness
oh there's this uh there's this great uh I forget the name of there was this baseball
um near uh baseball uh announcer that was really great his name is Bob something
um there's this great audio on YouTube where he's basically talking during a game and then between the game he's like
commenting about like on the slow side about the Furry Convention that was happening across the street from the baseball game he says one of the
funniest things uh one of the guys who was associated with like sitting with him talking about he's just like so would you ever dress in the have you
ever dressed in a costume I've never dressed in a costume but I've worn a fig leaf or two find that clip oh you said
it was on YouTube yeah I think it's on YouTube just type in Bob uh Furry Convention baseball like just yeah you
could just probably type it in the Stream yeah on the search engine yeah in the search right there Bob furry baseball
yeah Bob furry baseball yeah um it's it's hilarious so and it's just really
funny how it's like yeah Bob Euchre there you go Bob Uecker when he like actually like saw the furries
um so it was pretty hilarious like how he talks about this and uh oh there we
go yeah that one yeah it's he talks about it a lot in there and it's one of
the funniest things I've ever heard because it's like almost like he it's almost like getting like a nature show
narration but with like a baseball narrator telling you about this is what furries do this is what they're into you
know oh okay you know it's it's it's hilarious like I I couldn't believe it when I because I heard from it from
another YouTube channel someone had mentioned it and I was just like what is that like I gotta find out what this is
and then I'm like who's Bob Euchre and then I looked it up I was like oh so you want to put Bob Uecker uh his last name
yeah just type in you yeah there it is furries right there there it is right there Bobby referee's
in Pittsburgh it's a pretty long clip so I'm not sure if you want to um play the whole thing obviously but we'll Pace play something we can play a part of it
yeah it's it's pretty great I love them too high and it's even at a
ball and a strike people dressed up as as animals yeah for real
yeah they're wearing actual um costumes have their faces painted
kind of a weird look but uh I guess that's their thing one ball in one strike what do these
people call themselves years yeah they're having a fur ball tonight oh really
from PNC he was having fun with that it's just the way he talks you know it's
it's so funny to me
councilwains here it is and it's outside two balls and a strike you saw them this morning
yeah and I got out of there real quick like and they're checking in there uh I think
they're here for the next four days I believe it is
you know he he attended that thing he knew so much about it oh yeah no there's
a picture of him there's a picture of him literally posing with somebody from the actual convention yeah you know so
yeah I wonder where he was hiding his baseball this guy
let's hope it wasn't a bat yeah oh my gosh jeez
um so how like how much of the 19th because I'm super into the
1960s and the Psychedelic Counter Culture how much of that counterculture
and psychedelics played a part in an art I would say um the Psychedelic movement
was probably in my opinion one of the most important contribute contributions to American culture but especially
Comics culture um you know Comics uh underground Comics really blossomed in the 60s because
prior to that there was really virtually no underground Comics that we know of other than these pornographic comic
books that were illegally distributed in the early 20th century called Tijuana Bibles so a fun fact about comic book
distribution in the early 20th century a lot of it was money laundering from organized crime
um so much of the models to which you know printing uh you know printing Comics was was alluded to a lot of early
you know Comics uh comic book industry so if you look at Tijuana Bibles these were some of the early remnants of yeah
so these were sold and these were illegal and these are also one of the first representations of underground
Comics because it was one of the first comic book forms that had porn in a modern context but not porn just like
anything they would have characters of the era having having sex things like even like popular like like um
celebrities like you know like like Al Capone and even having characters like Donald Duck and like Mickey Mouse having
sex and not just like regular heterosex like actual gay sex like whoa things like that hello yeah there's tons of
that like gay sex you know lesbian sex all of this stuff started in underground comics with these porn I mean again you
know there's a saying that it always starts with porn and it's true in the case of underground Comics so you got
these as being kind of one of the first you know uh introductions like right here like you got like a little you just
can click not today right there yeah and then like so like right here it's like oh baby I came here so we could play a little before Donald got here oh Mickey
I think you're a nasty man you know and it's like this these were
these were secretly sold you know and there's a ways to money launder a lot of organized crime and they're considered
very important where do they sell them so these would be sold like like drugs like you would find a guy who knows a
guy you know and then or you go to like you know what are the speakeasies and then I have someone hiding them under
the cover or you ask a guy like hey you got it you know special book Sunday yeah something let me get a head of acid and
a TJ but uh Bible well well and that's the thing so these were very impactful
um for their time but aside from that um underground Comics um really took
light in the 60s um because in the 60s you start getting artists like Robert Crum who um I have a
lot of mixed feelings about he was a huge deal when I was growing up but as I've gotten older I've had to learn to kind of rethink my relationship with his
art but there's no doubt in my mind that he had a huge impact in the industry uh
because in the 60s you start getting you know these underground movement of artists who are just saying you know [ __ ] it like we're gonna just I know
hold on what is that I want to say yeah wait here we go Donald Duck and Mickey right there you know I mean yeah he's
got his little Peter out you know and Donald Duck can you can you zoom in on that I want to read that I've been
trying to for like the past 30 seconds I like I like how the furry thing is still still prominent here but yeah this was
drawn in the 20s right here like as early as the 20s you know and and these are a part of comic history I mean as
much as people want to deny or you know whoa you know someone read it for a guests that aren't watching it amazing
Donald that tickle's so good you know and and this is this is existed
as you know porn has existed in comics and sequential Arts since human beings have existed I mean if you look at early
like Hindu art you know in India there's tons of sex in it everywhere in there because you're talking about an era
where you know Paulie polyamory was a normal part of Human Experience you know what I mean
um but yeah there's tons of these these comics of just all these famous like properties and IPS you know what I mean
I keep going wow yeah it's a rabbit hole for sure you know but getting back to
your question yeah the 60s I would say uh you know you know a lot of people you know look at it with Rose Colored
Glasses a lot of the time but it was a really different time you know and a lot of artists of that era were changing the
game I mean you got guys like Robert Crum you know Spain Rodriguez you know and like all these different artists
emerging of the 60s who are taking LSD and just going for it you know and just making whatever whatever the hell they
want you know at a time where comic books were very heavily censored by you know what was at the time the comics
code which had emerged what's a Comics code so there's an amazing history behind that so by the 1950s there's a
independent comic There's a comic book company called AC Comics uh they started
off as a religious uh comic book company the founder of it um His Name Escapes me
at the moment but he started selling comic books in the 30s and what he did was actually invent the very first uh
saddle Stitch 30 Cent like 10 cent sticker Comic-Con the Sunday Funnies he got a bunch of these different Sunday
strips and put them together and sold them his comic book company fell Underwood and so once you his father the
character fathered I believe uh uh uh will Gaines the Creator uh the founder
of the one who picked up the mantle he hated his dad because he didn't want to take up the comic books industry or the the business but instead he put his own
stories that he wanted to see in the books so they started off in mid early mid 40s really putting stuff like what
you're seeing on the screen right now Crypt of the Tails oh shocks suspense stories all these Comics at the time
were very groundbreaking because there was nothing like it at the time that we're talking about horror stuff you know creepy science fiction and they
were all inspired by different books and movies that the guys would watch and they would come up with stories like this the time that they're what's
interesting about this time though and by the time we get the 50s these are some of the most popular you know books
because post-world War II many of the readers of comic books were adult men they were reading them in the trenches
they were interested in stories and experiences that they experienced as well you know and the horrors of reality and kind of coming back to this 50s
Suburban nightmare you know after you know having things like PTSD and or what they called shell shock at the time and
so you know these guys are reading these Comics because these are the stories they want to read you know and what's brillant about these Comics is that they
were very provocative at the time very um you know pushing the edge one of my favorite short stories uh that I can't
remember which one of the EC Comics it was but there is a short story about a man who comes back to a small town and
he's just disgusted by his whole community that celebrates him returning because he finds out that his his Band
of Brothers is one close friend in the trenches was black and was buried 30
miles away from the town and so that nobody could see it you know they were talking about these kind of
subjects as far back as the 50s you know but so what happens is in the 50s there's this uh crazy psychologist
um named um oh my God his name is escaping I just talked about it last week in my class sorry excuse me don't
come back to me but what happened was this psychologist he was a popular psychologist at the time
because he was trying to make a name for himself in the United States and there was a rise of a lot of juvenile
delinquent crimes uh kind of happening in the Midwest and parts of the United States by the time you're in the mid 50s
you know like things like you know the books like The Outsiders are kind of like alludes to like a lot of generation
of young men who are lost you know at the kind of you know culture that they're surmounted to in the states at
this time at a time where the Communist scare is like everywhere everyone's afraid of the bomb you know what I mean
there's this kind of just like this you know going back into this kind of inward you know uh culture of just like
everything's hunky-dory because we got a lawn and a house and a you know a nuclear family and a lot of these kids
hated it you know and their imagination would go wild and you know with that you know I feel like kids will get into like
crazy stuff but what happened was there was a situation where a young boy uh uh
had uh basically murdered somebody and his brother on the report police
report had eluded that comic books were the cause of this violence this outbreak of violence now whether you agree with
that or not what year was this this was I believe in 1954 or 53.
um and so for the first time in history comic books were put on a congressional hearing
and and uh will Gaines uh the the owner of EC Comics was the main target by a
lot of these people attacking comic books I mean you're talking about a time where you know by this point he's one of
my favorite moments is when they actually went and had a congressional hearing about this in the Senate I believe and they were basically badging
comics and stuff like that I mean there's a clip I can show you guys that kind of ascribes what happened if you want go on a YouTube and then type in uh
EC Comics um Court and you know there's a whole clip that
kind of ascribes to what was going on at that time um let's see scroll down uh yeah William Gaines uh let's go over
here Comics code keep going down there's a particular clip that I'd like to show you uh so what's interesting about this
is that um let's type in on will Gaines can you type in will Gaines please sorry about that I just really want to make sure we
put the right clip because this clip is like perfect will Gaines and yeah there we go
and uh so so it looks like oh my God the clip's not showing up so so basically I
mean before I get into it so like basically there was a there was a whole you know argument if comic books are
causing juvenile delinquency and he wrote this book called uh the the um seduction of the youth where he
alludes that comic books caused juvenile delinquency sexual deviancy and you know
um very homophobic very anti you know lgtbq basically what they did in the 90s
with video games basically that's the thing it's exactly the same thing and they attacked it with the same Vigor you
know that they would with the Communist scare of the 1950s okay you know what I mean and so what ended up happening is
Will Gaines went to court and tried to defend Comics but the funny thing was he was high as [ __ ]
um on pills because you know pills were like a popular drug for a lot of Housewives and he was no exception to that wow time and he was on these
goofballs like crazy he was sweating like a pig and you know I felt bad for the guy when I was watching the Clips
but he had some profound things to say and um that's awesome he was high as [ __ ]
and and uh you know um uh so he ended up losing the case and then EC Comics was basically destroyed
because they had very severely targeted and the comic books code uh to this day
by many uh retrospective you know historians has said to be the most oppressive uh censorship
um you know act in American art history because unlike any other medium history comic books were heavily censored by the
1950s to a point to which all the guts Neil Adams one of the guys who helped
bring Batman into a whole nother level that was way different had said it best he says comic books became no more
better than toilet paper after that which I agree like at that point as far as mainstream Comics go but what
happened so once that code came into play it really [ __ ] up the medium because before you could have all these
crazy images and you know visuals and stuff and like really get a glimpse of
like you know what the code did to people and at this point not only were people like censoring them people were
losing their jobs who were working in this industry for a longer than like 30 years since the 30s and not only that
there were comic book Bernies is that is that him so that's will Gaines will Gaines yeah Will Gaines right there he
is uh the found he was the basically his father had started EC Comics and he took the mantle book okay he's considered a
huge deal in publishing history because he really brought a lot of new stories and ideas into Comics but by the time
you hit the six these people are you know like there's a there's a point where I want to say too where there was comic book earnings here in the country
at that time where people were literally going out and burning Comics just like they did with Beatles records when you
know the whole moral panics that you know this nation kind of you know manufactures a lot you know so by the
time he hit the 60s you know you get a lot of these drug using hippies and the only reason why they were only able to
kind of put this art out there is because there was things like uh uh you know um psychedelic dungeon shops which would
be considered like you know like Boutique shops that sell specialty stuff something like a bong store or like they
would sell like different jewelry or psychedelic stuff but they would also consign underground Comics oh that's cool yeah and so that had a huge impact
on I would say many generations including myself you know of what could be done in comics because it reminded me
most importantly that there's no rules in this medium there's only um possibilities you know what I mean
and I think that again it kind of goes full circle with that with me which is why I teach it which is why I create
Comics is because it's accessible it's immediate it doesn't require any skill all requires you is to have Clarity and
even then that's subjective but yeah you're able to put something together you're able to create something and
really yeah so like here's a here's one of the testimonies described here and stuff um but you know he you know this is it's
just very interesting how this whole thing happened here but yeah I think that you know there's a
lesson to be learned with that you know with with you know censorship and you know I want and I think about that a lot
you know what is acceptable you know what is the line and why are we so afraid of you know children reading
you know it's like you know I like I mean basically I remember seeing the same kind of panic with religious groups
with the Harry Potter uh becoming extremely popular you know what when you were saying that earlier on when we
started about um about your experience with that this I had the same experience with with
Harry Potter growing up and I wasn't able to watch the movies I wasn't able
to read any of the books um even like they were I think there was
like some uh there's like forms that our parents had to sign and
um you know my Guardians at the time they didn't sign any I guess because they were talking about witchcraft so
they just wanted to warn the parents that what the kids were about to read oh yeah and I would wasn't able to to be a
part of that assignment because I wasn't able to read Harry Potter yeah there is a I mean um a lot of um a lot of
religious groups uh especially uh I'm going to say Charlton um you know religious organizations make
a lot of money off fear-mongering much like how a lot of media does you know um and I remember being a kid as young as
like 11 watching conspiracy Christian videos about Harry Potter there's a great one on YouTube called that I
watched as a kid on VHS called Harry Potter witchcraft repackaged um it's hilarious because as a kid I was
terrified from it especially in the segment where they talked to real Wiccan witches about what they believe and it's
like the most terrifying thing when you're like a young Christian kid because they're like we believe that everybody is should be available to be
free and we should love everyone and then it's like oh my God they don't really mean that they're actually killing like babies inside there yeah
and then when like as I gotten older as someone who's a self-proclaimed bruja um I laughed now I was like yeah no like
yeah we can they they have a lot of great values they're all about love being alone with nature and paganism is
like actually you know predates Christianity by a long time yeah so you
know you know it's it's just it's just interesting like how you know American culture United States culture
specifically is just always been rooted in these moral panics and you know uh
religious fears you know it's really rooted in the early you know Colonial Puritan culture that this country
cultivated from its you know uh its infancy you know what I mean yeah so I don't know I can get into that but
that's a whole other section well I mean it translates that like into
today like I I listen yeah to a lot of you know different podcasts even stuff
on the uh you know conservative conservative news yeah uh about like uh
the the gay agenda and how the agenda yeah how they're trying to feminize uh
women I mean men and how they're trying to get rid of uh men and yeah it's just
it it's weird well it gets weird I'm queer so I don't give a [ __ ]
no I I get that but it just it just it's just weird how how they have to every
everything about about a book yeah about Harry Potter I wasn't able to read a [ __ ] book yeah it's it's strange you
know because there's this kind of contradiction which we want kids to read but they better be reading the right
stuff yeah better not be making my kids gay exactly and I'm like so what if your
kid your kids gave who like so what I mean I mean they might be become
happier than you because you got a lot of you know some of those ones that fear the most are the ones that oh the any
person who is that afraid of anyone with their own sexual identity and is
comfortable with it is obviously very repressed very uncomfortable with their own sexuality and the possibility that
they may not know who they are do you think like over suppression will cause
that yeah certainly um as somebody who grew up homophobic and uh you know was
you know very um you know unsure of their sexuality at a very young age and was not able to
really understand or explore that at a time that was developmental for me you know I think that
suppressing it only makes it worse and it's not even the fact I think that if
you have those kind of feelings or those kind of thoughts is what makes you that
way I think it's just about accepting that those are things that human beings think about experience
and it's okay it doesn't mean you are suddenly gonna jump into like excuse me
jump into it you know like Amber Loves You by the way oh my God I love it I
tell going like I can't wait till someone does it happen many times you gotta have like a button where you have
like a buzzer when it's like hey burp no um but you know like for me
like you know because like I you know coming from a very religious family um both spides outside of my immediate
family and knowing that that is very pervasive you know in my own personal life and um and outside of it you know and
especially in the world that we're kind of experiencing right now with a lot of hate you know towards people with a different experience of sexuality and
you know I think that any person who has that much hatred and that much you know
fear has something to hide and has something that they don't want to know about themselves which I think is the
key to their their peace and their freedom you know and you know I think because again we're when you're so
culturally rooted in certain ideas it's it's really hard to unsee them I mean I had to experience that you know
deconstructing the faith that I was raised with and realizing that most of the people that I'm going to be talking
to especially when I entered Art School are queer gay lesbian bi you know and
also remembering that I was grew up with you know queer people my whole life and I accepted them and loved them but I
didn't you know accept their their lifestyle and I think that it was very
important for me to come to terms with that and realizing how much of that sexual suppression is extremely damaging not only to the people who are that but
the people who are afraid of it you know um it's less about accepting other
people it's more about accepting yourself you know and I think that
if you are able to at least see them as a human being first
then you can have that conversation of what you agree or disagree with but you're if you have created an image of
somebody based on what you have been told through a different lens that has absolutely no connection to that
Community you're going to create another you know image of people that will lead to their death will lead to their
violent end I mean African Americans know this firsthand you know from just
their history here in the States you dehumanize people from an image that you create in a mass popular depiction you
know or perception of it is stereotyping and all of that and you know that dehumanizes people from the mass you
know um observation but that's a whole other discussion we can have like five different podcast
episodes just from oh yeah if we do it though if we do it though I wanna I
wanna I wanna do my Alex Jones impressions what you're saying about
um uh about uh people not wanting to you
know dig in about their own behavior and their own mind that's exactly how I feel
about some people that don't want to or just uh uh that don't want to try
psychedelics or mushrooms because they're they're off they're afraid quotations they're afraid of what they
might see or think about in their own mind did you just say the p word my friend yes I did I'm going to go there I
think I did did I better being my Alan Watts impression no um yeah do you have one I want to hear
Alan Watson before this podcast ends I want to hear Alex Jones and Alan Watts
how about I do Alan Alex Jones as Alan Watts oh wow
it's like you say folks the thing about Zen is you
got to be present the whole cycle of life is full of surprises and I know a thing about surprises I'm
not gonna lie to you meditation has saved my life many times and I'm not gonna forget the day that Buddha brought
me Nirvana that's the way you understand the world
no yeah um yeah you know drugs um is
another thing that I had to uh you know deconstruct and really understand uh through research it took me a very long
time to be comfortable with you know participation and especially at a time where marijuana and you know for most
part most psychedelics were illegal absolutely and um being able to experience that um it's been a very
different history timeline for me because when I started you know smoking marijuana when I was like around 21
years old um I was very indifferent to it because it was fun it felt more like a party thing or like something you
would do just to have fun but it wasn't until I started studying the history of like you know Shamanism and especially
in Peru and learning about Ayahuasca and learning about you know you know you're on a podcast if you're talking about
Ayahuasca yeah so um but you know when I started you know you know you're on the Mind buzz when
you talk about Ayahuasca marijuana and psychedelics and comic books and Alex Jones
so psychedelics that I think has been the most important thing for me is how
much they're how much their science backs up the benefits to it I mean when you look at how mushrooms work how uh
psychedelics affect your brain and how how much more positive they have an
impact on you than something like that's more publicly available and much more dangerous excuse me there's another burp
here we go uh publicly available then um you know um something like alcohol
you know what I mean where again as many cases have said alcohol causes more deaths than most you know drugs are said
to be more dangerous like I would say not dangerous at all I'm really like marijuana and psychedelics you know um
you know psychedelics have been in like an integral part of my life you know they have there's me before and
then there's post you know psychedelic you know and I think that every human being should at least experience it if
their brain is obviously compatible because now it's not for everyone obviously you know but I think the thing is too is the fear comes from a lot of
the fear-mongering because of the ability for it to expand your Consciousness and to really deconstruct
your reality which in my opinion I'll just say it you know um you know pulls questions to power structures and
systems you know what I mean of well because if you start asking why you live this way yeah why we you start asking
funny questions that people don't want you to ask I'll just asking questions here yeah I'm not trying to screw up the
soup I'm just here to take mushrooms and find out what the truth is you know and that's kind of dangerous
yeah if you want to keep a whole society in line absolutely and have one way of
thinking at all times you know historically any any movement that has questioned you know how things operate
it has always been dismantled especially if you look at how available psychedelics were in the 60s and how
they completely even the fifth these two in the 50s yeah I mean with the beatniks and stuff you know um you know participating in that and you know I
think that it's such a natural part of Human Experience if you look at any culture especially pre-colonial cultures
it is common it's like it was like as essential as you know [ __ ] and eating
you know what I mean you you go out and you take a [ __ ] you go eat and like you know and then you take a mushroom and
then you have like a nice little experience and then you know you go you go on with your day you know right
sorry I gotta burp another fourth one this is now the the burp Buzz podcast
[Laughter] so yeah no I and I'm a huge advocate uh
for psychedelics I think that they do more um positive and harm but that's not to say as I was going for is I think
that the most important thing is do them responsibly um absolutely on my Instagram I posted several images that I
did while I was in LSD and I would say it was probably one of the most creatively ex positive experiences I've
ever had it really changed my whole perspective if you want to scroll I can point out where it is
not only does he know a lot about comic books but they're also an amazing
artists oh yeah that there's a lot of your artwork I mean do
you have art pieces free you know psychedelics oh yeah I can show you exactly where really pre and then post
uh so if you scroll down um keep going and stuff so you'll get to see a little bit of my body of work
um there'll literally be a uh yeah literally be a thumbnail that says uh
some LSD drawings but you'll see those there um but yeah like so there's there's pre
there's predestined with psychedelics and there's posts right there so some LSD drawings right here yeah so click on
this yeah click on that please yeah so that's where you'll start seeing some of the things so this was a very important
Arrow right there yeah yeah so these were made so these were I was doing some
work for uh a pitch that was gonna be uh uh that was going to be a part of a
LucasArts Adventure um unfortunately it fell through but I created amazing arm the reason why is
because I found out the creator of one of the artists that animated the stop-motion segment of the first Star Wars movie where they're playing the
chess boards and stuff from what I heard and you can confirm this if not but what I was told and I read is that the
animator for that the stop motion animation um as you say right there yeah Dragon draw responsibly it was actually great
because when I posted that somebody actually thanked me for putting that wow um because they had a friend who wasn't able to handle their psychedelics and
unfortunately had committed you know uh their own their own death so was nice to know that people you know appreciated
that responsible aspect of it but you know one of the things that I did that for is because I really wanted to
experience that because the guy who animated for Star Wars that segment of the chessboards wasn't LSD the entire time when he was animating it's all like
well if I'm doing something related to LucasArts I got a LSD right but what was
the thing is if you look at the brush work on this is that it's very visceral it's very you know instinctual I
literally felt like I was six years old again in my body less than in my mind
and I was just like going at my art at a very gut level unprecedented before in
my life I mean it really also the kind of thoughts that my mind produced was more like it became this very
philosophically different thing where I was starting to see things totally different where I realized like why am I because at this point I had always
called myself a cartoonist but at this point when I started you know when I had this experience it really kind of
changed how I saw myself in my art and I realize why am I limiting myself strictly as a Cartoonist why am I only
calling myself that what if I am just an artist and I can do whatever the hell I want and whatever I want to pick up I
can put together oh I like this one a lot yeah so this is pre-psychedelics but this was
um a series of images I did to produce for my graph my thesis for my MFA program so I'm very heavily inspired by
Mesoamerican history shout out to my homie Daniel Prada Kush Katan on Instagram
um we had a when I used to live in the Bay Area we used to go on a lot of walks and uh we met we we really had a lot of
conversation about Mesoamerican history and how how rich and deeply diverse and
complex it was you know especially pre-colonial and a lot of this was inspired by that history because one of
my biggest Inspirations outside of you know psychedelics is research history um learning about you know ancient
civilizations which is why I take a lot of my inspiration from visually yeah yeah no you can it's really prominent in
your artwork thank you yeah yeah so these are uh so these pieces that you can see the final piece of this actually
this was a progress part this is like a slow um stream but if you go up a little bit more uh right there this was a piece
uh yeah that one right there so these are a series of Arts images that I still create called humanatas whoa um so these
are literally never planned I don't plan anything on these I just go for it um they're all instinctual
um these are made out of time a difficult time in my life where I was trying to just be present and they're very therapeutic for me because I'm able
to just create repetitious colors space and images and also kind of explore
what's possible with with comic book art because human not as for me uh this type
of style and this type of art form for me is really more about getting my instincts present with the paper so I'm
able to kind of you know get out of my mind and be at peace in my body you know and yeah and I'm able to kind of
articulate thoughts and ideas and all this type of stuff so this was actually at a gallery show in Los Angeles
downtown called the Hive I was able to display this yeah where is this now so this is in my living room now but uh if
anyone wants it it's for sale is it yeah it's for sale you can DM I like it I'm glad you like it I'll DM you please do I
like it a lot I just want to jump in there honestly well you know and you can also commission me I also make do this
with collaboratively with people um there's a whole Forum you can sign on my My Links right now okay but um yeah and
these pieces just became very personal currently those some of these pieces are also at an art gallery in um Arcadia
called creative art worlds which is a really great non-profit for youth um I had a show there uh as uh last the
last couple months it's about to end but I just taught for them recently too with kids um it was fun I got to dress in
costume and teach Comics oh that's cool and stuff which yeah it was a lot of fun and then some of this other stuff right here so this one right here wallow so
this is an important book um we worked on this for three years with my collaborator um so I'm half nicaraguense and I'm half
Cuban and as I said earlier and for the first time in my life two years uh two years ago
um for research for the book uh my collaborator took me to Nicaragua and I had never been outside in Central
America ever in my life until this book uh was I was commissioned to make this book and uh it's basically follows a
story of our friend Walder who also now is currently in the states uh uh we're getting we're helping him seek political
Asylum since he was becoming very oppressed in Nicaragua at the time and uh it's basically about his experiences
as being a migrant worker in the second poorest nation in the entire Western Hemisphere the second to Haiti uh and uh
I was able to visit where my family came from I found my grandmother's grave there it hadn't been cleaned up in 10
years my great-grandmother's grave wow it was powerful to see that I found I had long lost family there and all my
cousins there were artists which was tripping me out whoa yeah it was crazy we found them in a Granada and uh they
apparently had like tons of sculptures and like they lived on a farm but they sculpted they built stuff out of
Woodworks and like one of their other kids like was uh was drawing with charcoal and pencil and I'm like where
were you guys all this time my half my grandmother's half-sister was
there that's where we found her and she was living in New Orleans for a long time and I never knew her existence
until I went there you know scroll back down dude these the your black and white images remind me of there's this image I
can't remember maybe we can Google search this about it's uh uh can you
look it up Amber it's um it's like mushroom look up like ancient mushroom art do you know which one I'm talking
I'm trying to reflect I'm interested in seeing this now this sounds like a lot of fun mushroom art and it's like this black
it's like this black and white like uh bird looking there we go there he is you see he's right there right that guy
wow are these literally cave drawings yeah look at that wow
wow it's similar that's why yeah the first thing like when I seen that I was like whoa hold on
that's fascinating you see yeah and that's the thing um I I really believe that mushrooms
uh anything that we eat really uh has data you know it's like eating data right you know we we think of food and
what we consume in our bodies is simply just nutrition cells that you know just
become part of our bodies and then have an effect on like our bodies but I think there's less discussion about how
certain plants affect our psychology too I mean if you look at the kind of food that we consume in America especially if
you're constantly eating fast food there's a lot of studies showing that it causes depression and a lot of sickness but what's to say that you're not able
to also consume something like mushrooms and it's information that it has its
Consciousness as a plant can infiltrate your brain too and give you information I mean just from my own
personal mushroom experiences one of the most important things that I felt under that was this conversation in my brain
that would you know tell me when to relax or like hey you're thinking too much hey don't overthink it it's just
this it's just that you know um you know and I think about that it's like is that me or is that the mushroom
using its way of communicating with me because if you look how mushrooms operate they're very connected they're
very huge networks and they have tons of data in them that is you know basically
you know plant you know material in in cells and stuff and there's so much I don't think that we're putting research
on to finding out how these things connect to us on not only on a you know on a psychological level but a
biological level too you know especially how when you look out mushrooms affect the brain and stuff so that's how the
way I Lisa describe it and that's where I feel like art has a way for us under the influence of plants like that yeah
can really help us understand our own minds too and our imagination and what kind of images come to us as a species
and what they represent you know one of my favorite things that Terence McKenna talked about in his book um you know
food of the Gods is how one of the earliest images that we see that would
be considered what we call DNA um strands started off as a symbol of a
serpent you know what I mean the kind of you know cyclical you know spiral like you know you know uh you know the
serpent as being a symbol of wisdom or a source power that was inspired and do by inducing psychedelics the Peruvian
shamans talk about the cosmic serpent as being one of the center things too of that you know and it's something that
even goes far back as ancient Persia you know so I I feel like early art had to
have been inspired some capacity by psychedelics because again there's like that Stone Age theory that Terence
McKenna talks about how our species as when we were more ape-like really became more self-aware because of the constant
digestion of plants because if you look look again with the science of mushrooms they literally expand your brain they
literally shut down different neural Pathways and compensate by creating new ones so new ideas new Concepts new ways
of thinking emerge language language I really believe only emerged from the
construction of possibly consuming psychedelics because how else do you think about constructing these weird
sounds that only we can understand and only if you can hear and you know but
it's energy you know is your name Gill
story of my life oh my God I got two of us now oh my goodness uh double down
with the mushroom [Laughter] that's the thing though you know and I
think it's very important you know for for us to take this stuff seriously um that said I do not condone
um this type of stuff consumed by youth I think one thing I've always taught my students um is that if you're going to do drugs
do them when you're older and your brain is more developed because if you're young and you're consuming drugs on a
constant basis I cannot say that it won't have a negative it will have a negative I can say that we'll have a
negative effect too so you're on you're you're part of that that group that says that they that uh a child or even a
person should do marijuana or any type of drugs after the age of 25. well I I
20 they they say that 25 is where your brain is actually more developed because
25 also is when you suppose your brain starts it's growing oh okay you know it
stopped yeah well it stops expanding I'm not sure I mean there's science to be back I need more research on that but
like my thing is I I just from as an educator and as someone who you know you
know didn't grow up taking drugs um until I was in my 20s and also seeing a lot of Youth in my time teaching
because I've taught youth who've been incarcerated who have been in juvie hall and oh okay you know have worked in and
have sold drugs you know what I mean and yeah you know and they the thing is do you see a difference I do because you
know when when I see youth who especially older you know people who have been consuming marijuana since they
were 15 years old it does have an effect you know what I mean and I think there
is an opportunity in the future perhaps for it to be possible but I don't agree
with it until you know there's a way that is safely being used and quite honestly I don't think it's necessary
for young people uh to take yeah because I think because you're young and your brain is developing there are so much
more immersive ways to expand your mind and art is one of those things you know what I mean I think that you know and
this is just and I hate it and I mean it might just because of a thing of my age but like I really believe that young people should really be free to learn
about their own mind without any external stimulus like that because yeah if you can't be strong on your own mind
you know at your Youth and as you're developing it I don't think that you'll
be able to do that as an adult you know what I mean because you're not developing that part of your brain and
drugs can kind of interfere with that especially uh with adolescent brains that are impulsive very very uh risky
you know um you know their brain is in a very extremes you know what I mean right so there's a lot of room for addiction you
know to kind of take place there because it doesn't matter the substance doesn't matter what you what you take anything
can become an addiction you know what I mean and it's not a matter of what causes addictive behavior it's more
about why you become addicted to something what are you going through what you experience is causing to depend
on the substance and I think that adolescents are much more um you know vulnerable to that kind of
behavior you know so I mean I'm open to the idea but yeah I think that you know
um yeah by by me asking that question I don't I don't I'm not
I'm not here to back behind oh you should give a joint to a 12 year old I'm
not right because I've I've been on that that side yeah you know what I mean yeah
and I totally agree I would rather have somebody give me a pencil or a pen and
paper than than a joint at 12 years old hey man you ever hit this [ __ ] it's called graphite you can you can crazy
[ __ ] with this yeah I wish I wish I had dust in here when I was 12 to see that
give me that that's why I do what I do I mean because you know nobody was able to do that for me when I was young you know what I mean I mean oh that's good I mean
because like you know I I was offered lots of drugs growing up and I never did it because of religious fear and also I
I because punk rock was something that was a huge influence in my life and being in the straight edge culture for a
while was like affecting me from that you know it was off grounds of fear but I think that I'm very happy that I
didn't do drugs until I was way older in my life and I'm proud of that but I also feel like yeah like you know you know
there's a lot of kids there that that's the only option that they're given right you know and I don't think that's right I think that's very unethical you know
and I think that young people will have the right to explore their imagination
without dependency on substance you know what I mean yeah um because a lot of Youth you know there's a lot of Youth
out there that are trouble that are hurt that are in pain that are suffering and you know drugs are a way out you know a
way to not feel to numb and I think that you know there are so much healthier ways of doing that and I think that
people really neglect the idea of art being one of those things you know we always push a lot of Youth to do sports
or do technology stuff and I realize well how is this technology any other different addiction that it would be
than any other substance if not as one of my great friends uh Gaia Gaia Weiss
said shout out to Gaia um the internet is the most addictive substance on the planet yeah it is I
mean look at us right here we're surrounded by screens you know what I mean and it's it's not going to stop no joke and as coming back to what we
started you know I think that you know like anything you might do it responsibly do it with intent you know
do it with knowing what you're doing and why you know and that requires
an educator I think in a community that really challenges you to think differently or question everything you
know and research why you know like it's one of the reasons why when I teach Comics like I really make sure that my
students um I don't tell them that they have homework I tell them you're doing research this is research you're going
to find out who these artists are what they did and I want you to write what's and draw what's most important
and I feel like that's much more interesting than writing a boring ass book report that's like double spaced
you know and like yeah Bland white black screen you know when you can just draw What mattered to you and then discuss it
as a class I mean that's what I've done with my students in mentoring you know oh my my adolescence is that I tell them
we're not a class we are a studio and in this studio we learned everything we
don't just draw we read we research we think critically we ask questions and discuss it and you can do that with
anything you know it doesn't matter what the subject is even art has the ability to teach us stuff that seemingly seems
disconnected from art like mathematics you know Theory you know philosophy you know a history all of that stuff
encompasses all existence it's everywhere so it's not only exclusive to
it's it's not exclusive to just one subject Dustin yes sir thanks for coming out man
thanks for having me here I'm super happy to be here it was great there we go she's got it yeah that's so
cute so this is my time to shout out all right yeah go ahead and share whatever so you want to share if you like what
you heard please check out my Instagram it's at Dustin you can also check my website and if you have time
please check out my graphic novel uh wallow uh a Central American Odyssey
we're at wallow comic on Instagram and if you want to learn more about the MFA program that I was a
part of check out CCA Comics MFA we also have a BFA program in there as well and
please please support Independent Artists please support Zine festivals please support independent Comics please
support anything that is outside the mainstream I don't want to sound like a pretentious sipster but it's true the
only thing that pushes the medium forward are the voices that are not heard also check out this new documentary called No straight lines
it's based on a very well uh award-winning Anthology that one of my professors Justin put together it's one
of the first documentaries if not the first about covering lgtbq history of comic books and their important role in
our history as a society and talking about subjects otherwise underrepresented in our community
especially in comics so on one thing I just want to say peace love and prosperity everybody you are loved you
are blessed don't feel that you're alone in this world you are here there's a community that loves you and that if
anything make a comic about how you feel put it out there and in inflow Comics unfortunately our website's down
but we're a non-profit it's my nonprofit we're currently in development right now so and if you're interested in working
with me or getting a custom art piece check out my human Auto form on my link uh on my Instagram so thank you guys for
having me here this is the doc Prince of comics we will see you until next time
until we meet again in this universe or the next
peace guys [Music]
no you just let it play out what are you doing that's why I told you to stop
I'm bored guys I'm sorry [Music] okay go to the picture
go to the picture did you did you stop recording no go to the intro and outro what are you
doing girl bye bye everybody
she's fired just kidding she'll be back next week we'll be back next week for another one I love you guys
peace love and prosperity peace out [Music]

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