Gill hangs out with Michelle Janikian, Writer 🍄Author "Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion" 👽Writer, Editor, “Human” 🌀 michellejanikian.com tap.bio/@michelle.janikian
Watch this podcast on Youtube at Mindbuzz Media https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIYj7eDCsV3YPzxv7VRKZKg
Listen to this podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/4r35EH2Des3LzuTyO8uX92?si=7b73ffc70be64823
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mygrito.net
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Don't forget to follow us on Instagram @themindbuzz https://www.instagram.com/themindbuzz/ to keep up with our hosts, guests, and upcoming events!
See you on the next one!
"King without a Throne" is performed by Bad Hombres
King without a Throne Official Music Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNhxTYU8kUs
King without a Throne
https://open.spotify.com/track/7tdoz0W9gr3ubetdW4ThZ8?si=9a95947f58bf416e
Gill hangs out with Michelle Janikian, Writer 🍄Author "Your Psilocybin Mushroom Companion" 👽Writer, Editor, “Human” 🌀 michellejanikian.com tap.bio/@michelle.janikian
Watch this podcast on Youtube at Mindbuzz Media https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIYj7eDCsV3YPzxv7VRKZKg
Listen to this podcast on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/4r35EH2Des3LzuTyO8uX92?si=7b73ffc70be64823
Follow The Mindbuzz on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/themindbuzz
My Grito Industries
mygrito.net
Subscribe to The Mindbuzz Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIYj7eDCsV3YPzxv7VRKZKg
Don't forget to follow us on Instagram @themindbuzz https://www.instagram.com/themindbuzz/ to keep up with our hosts, guests, and upcoming events!
See you on the next one!
"King without a Throne" is performed by Bad Hombres
King without a Throne Official Music Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNhxTYU8kUs
King without a Throne
https://open.spotify.com/track/7tdoz0W9gr3ubetdW4ThZ8?si=9a95947f58bf416e
three two Uno hello what's up Michelle
0:07
not much how you doing I'm doing well and yourself good yeah thanks for asking thanks for
0:15
uh coming on and and doing the podcast I really appreciate it no I'm excited to be here I was really
0:21
excited to get the SE awesome yeah we have a good uh reach
0:27
uh outreach program right here at uh MB media
0:32
I said uh I read your book and and before we uh started I was telling you
0:39
the little stories about how um oh by the way if you haven't
0:44
recognized uh Michelle jennekean's name uh on the uh on the podcast she
0:53
read uh wrote a book uh regarding the psilocybin mushrooms and uh one of my
1:01
favorite books that I like to read and that I like to give away your uh psilocybin mushroom companion
1:08
ah yeah thank you that means a lot I appreciate it and then like I was saying before uh going
1:15
um before we started recording that uh once uh my friend I hear my friends talk
1:21
about uh that they want to start experiencing mushrooms I usually I give
1:26
them the book that's awesome no that means a lot that's kind of how I thought it would
1:36
there you go oh that's cool that that's a good way to put it my cereal Network just like Fred heads of friends or
1:42
family you know I always thought it would be the more experienced person kind of initiating their friend or
1:48
family member great to hear that
1:53
yeah yeah once I once I hear them say hey like uh have you heard of micro
1:58
dosing and I and I tell them do you got about 10 hours that we can set aside so
2:06
we can we can talk about it but don't don't hear it from me uh check out this
2:13
book dude so I I give them the book and um most of them don't give it back which
2:18
is fine I just usually get another copy it's okay I like that system actually
2:23
that works out for me pretty well you see a high increase in Book Sales
2:30
you know why there you go in Southern California you know why thank you thank you actually so much
2:37
so what uh gave you the first I know you probably talked about it a little bit in the book
2:42
um how uh like what was the first moment that you
2:48
thought you know what I'm gonna write a book about uh psilocybin yeah
2:54
moments a good question I don't know if I have like an exact story about the
2:59
moment but the idea was to write a book about mushrooms that was like unbiased
3:06
it wasn't like trying to like you know it wasn't too dogmatic about anything like any school of thought I felt like a
3:15
lot of the books on psychedelics were either like super scientific or really spiritual and there's nothing wrong with
3:21
either but I guess I always thought the average person was coming from somewhere
3:27
in the middle um and that to like explain everything that's going on in this like psychedelic
3:33
world it's like seems like now it's everywhere and just kind of everyday language like how I would talk to my mom
3:40
or my friends who like also have never tried any psychedelic before like
3:45
um and just like give them the non-biased like low down on everything you need to know to do this in a you
3:51
know safe responsible way the original pitch was how to trip like an adult
3:57
yeah that title didn't make it in the end but
4:02
uh just trying to Turtles but you know this isn't some crazy hippie thing or like you know it's not just for kids or
4:09
whatever like you know there's some really serious stuff going on here but uh just and this is what you need to
4:16
know maybe before going into it to have a safe good time or you know a beneficial time with mushrooms
4:23
right and you brought up a really good point about most uh psychedelic books
4:29
being very um I guess uh the the lingo the
4:34
scientific lingo uh especially in uh the Psychedelic explorers guide by uh who
4:43
was it that fatiman James fatiman yeah right and which was very heavy in just
4:50
scientific lingo and I can barely read a few pages where I had to like stop Googling
4:56
and um like your book came across as very uh I was it was easy to grasp and and
5:04
just like you said that um just uh relaying the message about uh
5:11
psychedelics
5:20
like explainer journalism work and I'd been writing about cannabis for a pretty long time and you know the transition
5:26
into psychedelics was a pretty natural one obviously and to just keep that kind
5:32
of um educational Spirit Alive like this is you know without the stigma without the
5:39
drug war but also like there's all this kind of new or like kind of spiritual or
5:44
scientific not stigma but just like you know Point of View kind of an angle it
5:49
kind of feels like a narrative sometimes and I just wanted to do something just straight up and that's what I tried to do with my journalistic work about
5:55
cannabis and Other psychedelics Drugs plant medicine I don't really care what
6:00
word you use I don't know the word plant medicine yeah
6:07
uh and so yeah it was a natural transition kind of like um
6:14
and you know my first it's my first book too so like how I like moved into like more longer form just like explainer
6:21
work and and yeah luckily it's been resonating with a lot of people so I feel really just grateful and glad it's
6:27
out there and people are finding it useful and and before this book he wrote
6:33
for Playboy you wrote for High Times herb magazine uh double blind uh
6:40
actually psychedelics today uh I uh I I
6:46
haven't really caught up on their podcast but I I I heard the interview uh
6:52
with you on there um uh big buds team Vogue uh I mean all the
6:59
list goes on and on for Michelle so um I mean
7:07
awesome great pieces like uh uh like the one in uh enrolling Stone
7:12
and there I can't remember the exact piece but um yeah that was on cannabis
7:19
legalization in Mexico actually oh it was in 2007. so already like so much has
7:26
happened but kind of when the conversation started I was reporting on that I was here I was like let's go and
7:33
and trying to follow that story which is still not totally legal but they're working on it really even since 2007.
7:41
that was 2017 actually oh 2017. okay um but still like five years ago and um
7:48
there's just been a long process here to to go through like the
7:54
um legalization process it's on the way but yeah how how different is it like
8:00
kind of the stigma behind it in Mexico versus the stigma here yeah I guess
8:05
that's kind of like it's funny when I first started reporting on it I was newer to Mexico and I was like so
8:11
excited and I was like man in a few years we're gonna have dispensers come in California and no I didn't understand
8:16
actually culturally the stigma is still pretty strong um it's changing I've been witnessing it
8:23
changing definitely it's definitely more people are definitely more open you know like
8:29
Tia's your mom moms are more open like you know medical like they're hearing about the medical stuff but still
8:35
there's a pretty big stigma like oh you're gonna be like a lazy Stoner or whatever um but it's changing there's a lot of
8:42
like really cool folks here working on that um and yeah I've had like I've made like
8:48
a lot more like weed tea bags for my friend's mom oh wow than I did when I first got here but it's it's just it's
8:56
it's happening but it's it's just like maybe we're California I'm not from California but what I imagine maybe
9:01
California was like 20 30 years ago um so maybe it can be where California is now in and some more time but yeah
9:09
definitely because I I feel like I my family's from Mexico and I I travel frequently there and I don't think I
9:16
ever seen my cousins be like we're gonna go for a walk you know those walks yeah
9:21
the the infamous walk on Thanksgiving with your cousins
9:27
I I it doesn't it doesn't happen I don't and if if my family does smoke weed or
9:33
do any psychedelics or anything like that I have no idea it's just something that's still very taboo and private too
9:41
and you know like Catholicism is so much more of like a culture here I also grew
9:46
up my mom is Catholic and there's just like a lot of Shame involved in like having fun and I feel like that can like
9:54
continue that continues culturally and for a lot of different like not just
9:59
Mexico but like Catholic dominant countries tend to be I don't know a
10:04
little stuck up about things that are fun but also there's like a lot more history
10:11
to hear just like with you know more like indigenous plant medicine and
10:17
ceremony um not exactly being stigmatized but there's just so much more control
10:22
context here uh than in America well and also here like all the hippies in the
10:29
60s came down here to kind of just like have a free-for-all with mushrooms and weed and stuff and so there's actually
10:35
kind of a big stigma against that it's like oh those hippies are like oh are you a hippie you know you like cannabis
10:42
or mushrooms but it is changing people are definitely opening up especially to the medical
10:48
benefits of both of many kinds of these
10:54
medicines so it's interesting time to be anywhere I think and watch that America as well
11:00
um so what do you think the big pushes in in Mexico like in in changing uh I guess
11:08
in changing people's minds about um cannabis and psychedelics
11:13
what do you mean big push like like I mean the I mean okay so what what
11:21
exactly is the status of cannabis in Mexico
11:27
um I'm not currently reporting on it but it's not legal yet it is decriminalized like you can have up to five grams on
11:34
you and it's like decriminalized but that's also you know I don't know people
11:40
like I don't know I wouldn't travel with a lot of cannabis anyway oh yeah just in
11:45
case but uh right um and so what's happened here is that
11:52
it's different than in America where like state by state we legalized cannabis right and that's how it was
11:58
that's how it's changing here the first step was a Supreme Court case that
12:05
argued that having cannabis illegal is like an infringement on your civil
12:12
liberties like a specific civil right that's like the freedom to personality essentially okay and and they won and so
12:21
after that there was and then you have to win the same argument like three
12:26
times for it to pass into like the Senate and then the Senate has to approve it and it has to move through
12:32
like the houses of government and so there were three successful court cases
12:39
and then it went to the Senate and it's kind of been stalled for a couple of years
12:44
um there's definitely been I see like active of us I know going to speak to the Senate so it's still like an active
12:51
conversation but basically they're stuck in the step of like writing all the regulations and figuring out all right
12:58
how it would really work and I think that's kind of where it comes down like culturally like I think it's the
13:04
lawmakers who might be like is Mexico really ready for this
13:09
um and they have all their like constituents or whatever to consider but there are definitely benefits right in
13:16
addition to the medical benefits which is kind of what started all the court cases and stuff like little kids with um
13:22
seizure disorders right that we're getting benefits from CBD oil I think
13:28
there's also like there could be a lot of tax money benefits right like you could make money for states that could
13:35
really use it but um I don't know if it would work here the system has a lot of problems right
13:43
so there's a lot to figure out I think before it can happen but I do hope it does I do think that it's a really good
13:49
thing but it's just taking a while and by the way I don't think we stated this but uh Michelle's in Mexico at the
13:56
moment that's why she can be inside the studio so um what uh what what state are
14:02
you in exactly I know you said it off air but yeah I live in Chiapas I've been
14:08
here for about eight years okay Amber do you know where that is I don't know where I do I do it's in the South it's
14:16
the state that borders Guatemala oh okay oh you're down south
14:21
yeah but I'm also up in the mountains so it's like chilly here really the low is like
14:28
47 tonight yeah it's oh wow as soon as you leave the mountain and go to like a big city an hour away it's really hot
14:36
but yeah what made you want to live in Mexico
14:42
oh that's a whole long story but it's a loaded question right there right
14:48
Mexico's helped me so much I love this country I was a traveler first when I
14:54
was really young you know I was in my first time I came here I was 20 and then
14:59
I did a long trip here when I was 22 and then a friend of mine died when I was 24
15:06
and that's when I came down here and I was a traveler and I came I went back and forth to New York where I'm from a
15:12
few times but I basically haven't really come back since then and now you know
15:19
I'm a resident of Mexico and um I love it here I consider it my home
15:25
wow and where are you originally from I was born in New York City oh okay um I
15:32
grew up in New Jersey oh wow really that's awesome that's like totally uh different from uh Mexico
15:39
and yeah especially like I live in like a small
15:45
City it's a much slower Pace it's it's definitely like healed me from New York Library New York Life is toxic
15:52
and I do feel like I'm finally slowing down sometimes other people pass me on
15:58
the street and it's like a really big accomplish you're used to the the fast life out in
16:05
New York you were I was I mean but I haven't lived there now you know in a long time so
16:12
um but yeah yeah when I lived there I was always in a rush I lived pretty far away from Manhattan Queens so I was
16:20
always like on the subway I like lived oh wow
16:25
different pace I bet um yeah I bet so um
16:31
how did you start um reporting on cannabis
16:36
[Music] um
16:41
like what I don't I don't have like a story for this but it kind of happened I
16:49
guess it felt it feels like it just I'm so I'm passionate about cannabis I have
16:54
my 420 times above my head um I've always been a cannabis consumer
17:00
but I actually came um more from the content marketing side
17:05
I was working for a friend of mine from University um and I'm just like digital marketing
17:11
and she kind of pivoted her business um to focus on cannabis it was right
17:17
when cannabis was being legalized in Colorado she was in California it wasn't yet legal but everyone was like
17:23
preparing that was around like maybe 2005 2006 or maybe earlier this is more
17:31
like I guess I wasn't I I was writing about I was still at College then so
17:38
this for me is more like 2015. um
17:43
because adult use only came into California around then right it actually
17:48
hasn't been that long oh okay um anyway and so I was her Ghostwriter
17:54
for a while I just really oh I didn't have the confidence I didn't really think I could do that whole thing that
18:02
whole world but um eventually I quit to try and it just worked out
18:08
um and that's around the time that was around 2017 and once around the time
18:13
yeah I wrote for that article for Rolling Stone was one of my like my breakout pieces and then I started just
18:21
getting a lot of work for a while and just was like yeah kind of overwhelming and crazy but exciting
18:28
um and but yeah you know I'm passionate about cannabis but yeah I didn't like pursue it I don't know like on my own
18:35
that just seemed really hard it it kind of uh cannabis writing chose you you
18:41
were Jack dragged into it Kicking and Screaming kind of thing yeah definitely it was a horrible horrible
18:49
I feel really lucky it's kind of crazy to think about like um I do thank cannabis and mushrooms
18:56
which is like how I got my star I've always wanted to be a writer but I don't know it's hard it's really competitive
19:03
um and I don't know it can take a lot of guts to try I suppose yeah but yeah we'd
19:10
found me and was like no I'm gonna put you to use and the mushrooms were like wait wait we've got a huge tree too
19:18
so what uh what actually what prepared you to write um to write your book to write your
19:25
mushroom book what did you start I because I know you did your your cannabis work however did
19:33
you uh start writing uh reporting on psilocybin before you wrote your book
19:43
psychedelics for emotionally Playboy a little bit for herb I think
19:49
um for like a year or two um and
19:56
yeah and mushrooms so then that was around the time that Michael pollan's
20:01
book came out how to change your mind and there was just all this interest oh okay that's right yeah and his book was
20:09
cool right but it really was like don't do mushrooms unless you're with a professional except it's okay for me to
20:15
do it and this is when I did it and I was like wait wait a second there's something not right here we should yeah
20:23
let me let me write about it and you read about it for about three hours and and you can't do this and uh yeah you
20:32
know and so also I guess also part of what prepared me was just like mushrooms you know I'd been eating mushrooms since
20:39
I was a teenager um and it was really interesting to watch it change from this like kind of
20:46
crazy drug that I did that not a lot of other people really wanted anything to do with to like now this like mainstream
20:53
there was all this interest people wanted articles about the use and all this stuff and I was like wait that same
21:01
like crazy world that I like to go to like one search twice a year is now this
21:06
like therapy cure-all like how does this work and so I kind of just started
21:11
investigating it um trying to like make the connection from this experience that I knew to like
21:18
how is this work for healing um and and then I learned so much and it
21:24
was actually really surprising and it was beautiful and and it really felt really special and of course it does
21:30
because mushrooms just Everything feels really significant but like and then it
21:35
was like oh my God I'm already in Mexico and mushrooms are from like the state north of me this is crazy like this must
21:40
be fate and um and yeah I put everything that I
21:46
learned into the book and I interviewed a lot of experts and just also regular mushroom people you know people who like
21:53
to just use them on their own little routines and ways and put it all together
21:59
um and that's how it how it came together I'm not like a guide I'm not I'm you know I'm not a scientist I'm not
22:06
even a therapist um I'm just a writer with an interest and took it really really far and here
22:13
we are yeah but I mean sometimes that's all you need you need to have the passion for
22:19
what you're you're writing about or what you're trying to
22:25
um I guess what you're trying to convey in in your message right
22:30
and I felt like I was kind of coming from the same place as the what I imagine the read
22:36
case I was also learning all this new stuff and I was making this connection right like I said and and and I'm also
22:43
someone who struggles you know with my uh with anxiety depression things you know I understood
22:51
the need or the one um and to be able to put it all together for people
22:57
um I'm really glad I did I you know I've had a lot of kind of like imposter
23:02
syndrome about it more so when it first came out because everyone else was like a scientist okay there is this whole
23:10
kind of idea where it's like I don't know oh you know I'm not a I'm
23:16
not an expert I guess like you know I'm a right I'm a journal I know about this you know yeah and it's pretty serious
23:23
stuff and everyone else talking is like a PhD or they're you know been a
23:28
underground guide for 30 years and I was like oh [ __ ] but
23:35
um luckily you know I do think what I put together um was needed and and people do seem to
23:42
appreciate it so I've kind of shed a little bit of that luckily it took a couple years but
23:49
um yeah that's where I can come from anyway I wish I had my first copy of the book Because I had like
23:56
chapters and chapters of line just highlighted and um like small little notebook uh small
24:03
like little um like uh like bookmarks in the entire book and and that one who did I give it
24:10
to I gave it to one of my friends um I think it was a co-worker actually
24:15
it was weird it was just like she was she was uh we were like talking about it
24:21
like off to the side you know uh you know those conversations oh yeah
24:27
everyone comes to me for those now and she just brought up uh oh like uh
24:34
like micro dosing and I was like okay all right watch out girl here you go take this
24:41
read it um but I I need to pick up uh another copy so I can give it away probably in
24:48
the next couple days but I I always advocate for your book uh
24:54
and you made a good point because it did come out the same year
24:59
um Michael pollan's book came out right like a year later like was it a year
25:04
later I I was in this uh I think it was during the pandemic and
25:11
um I was spiraling into all these psychedelic books and that's how I came across your
25:17
book I I think I just I Googled uh uh psychedelic books
25:24
and I I just started filling uh my Amazon cart with all these different books uh Michael Collins uh yours
25:33
um I think I did I picked up acid dreams too I think I read that one like twice it talks about like the The Counter
25:40
Culture hippier in the 1960s and but yours was like
25:46
those were pretty much like like I said before like um kind of like the Psychedelic guides
25:54
uh Explorer guides that was it was hard to read there was no really how to
26:02
and I think that that that was great that was cool you know and and that's something that you can you can give to
26:08
people oh I'm so glad yeah that's how I really thought of this most of this interview
26:14
is just gonna be me uh telling you how awesome you are I just want to tell you that right now I
26:20
should I shoot more of these
26:30
days [Laughter] no but that was you know the idea to
26:36
like every chapter is like you know like in a a subject in the world of
26:42
psychedelia where it's like if I was talking to my mom it's like how would I describe this as like a set and setting chapter right and there's micro dosing
26:49
and everything how to handle bad trips how to like kind of trip in itself like how do you just like deal with yourself
26:56
when you feel that different it's overwhelming sometimes I know it's scary I still get scared sometimes I do it
27:02
anyway but I get it you know what would you say to like okay so like
27:08
like us three right I can I can lump myself in this conversation but usually no um kind of you know what what to
27:16
expect I mean obviously not every time you expect the same thing right but um we know or at least like for me it's
27:23
more with intent right I'm gonna do it with an intent I go in no knowing that I
27:28
want to possibly get something out of this or you know not just a party thing but for listeners that you know maybe
27:35
think that we're crazy or you know it's wild and psychedelics because I I think
27:41
I I was that person that was always scared and I was like oh no no no no like no like I I don't want to trip the
27:48
way that I see people trip on movies or the way that they depict it right so far I don't want to lose control yeah right
27:55
I know I hear that all the time and that's one of the things that I was so surprised about was you really don't
28:01
lose control you you have control the entire time um but for someone that you know like a
28:06
I don't want to say a naysayer but someone that's that thinking about it but not like a refuter yeah like what
28:13
how would you in a nutshell explain doing psychedelics to someone where it's
28:18
like how would you ease them in right make them feel a little better about it yeah it's a good question it does depend
28:24
on where they're coming from if they're kind of like I can tell they're interested yeah a naysayer you know
28:32
those types where they're like oh but but but they still want to know more like I'm gentle with them I try to like
28:39
explain yeah that it's you know it's not like in the movies it's not
28:46
some big like it can be not big and crazy but a little
28:52
overwhelming you don't lose control you're always yourself though right but it is like seeing yourself
29:00
I think I describe it in the book like from a bird's eye point of view and so I
29:05
usually go in with the intention of just like learning about something about myself right like
29:12
sometimes I have more specific intentions and it depends on like where I am or what's going on in my life
29:19
um but it is just like this six hours that I can just like really reflect and
29:26
I learn a lot I learn a lot about myself it's like therapy in a way
29:31
um I can and sometimes it's hard and that's what you have to I have to be honest too like
29:37
you know sometimes it's sad or sometimes I don't totally like what I see but
29:43
that's all part of it's like part of this learning experience where if I do find something that makes me that I
29:49
don't like like then I can I can see it like with kind of like it's not bad it's
29:55
not like a malviaki right it's like super terrible it's like a learning experience I can maybe figure out why I
30:03
don't like that part about myself or what I can do to change it or if I maybe now that I've seen it I can realize it
30:10
in my everyday working life and make little adjustments or it can be so many different things it can also be like a
30:17
release right like if you take you know when you're like in a tripping dose like
30:23
two three four five grams it can be I can do a lot of like crying you know
30:30
but like it's not sad it's kind of like letting things go that I needed to that
30:36
I didn't even know I was like holding back um or it can be like grieving things I
30:42
didn't know were really bothering me and I can kind of just let them go in that moment like this is my time to grieve
30:48
that thing or I just had this big realization and now I can
30:55
like it's like a release in a way now I can move on and and and I don't have to
31:01
carry it so heavily anymore but not everyone's ready for that right I start talking like this at a party and
31:08
someone's like never mind but I think if you're ready for it some
31:15
people are looking for that yeah but maybe not maybe you want to try micro dosing maybe that's
31:23
easier way in or just see things a little differently like I my friends
31:28
here are pretty scared and I haven't done a full dose with my my best friend here he's not ready and that's okay but
31:36
we have Micro dosed a couple times at camping um and
31:42
my friends are enjoying it you know it's like they're like they're more present they're like you know what I think it
31:47
was I was like more open I was just more in the moment and I'm like yeah that's what it's like okay it just gets like
31:54
bigger and bigger kind of I think sometimes when you're on a higher dose right you're just so in the moment you
32:00
can't imagine not being in the moment absolutely um but that's a beautiful thing because
32:05
I usually live in my head like in the future I'm always like that's anxiety right I'm always like planning or like
32:11
oh Everything feels overwhelming and I need to like get everything done or whatever and and I know that now because
32:17
I I saw it on mushrooms and I saw that I can I'm in control of that right and I
32:23
need to slow that down or else I'm always going to be stressed out and I don't need to be really or it's so many
32:29
things it's hard to describe um but that it can it can help you be just like the best
32:36
version of yourself if that's like how you want to use it it can also be just like a really beautiful eye-opening
32:43
night with like your partner your best friend or maybe a guide or like whatever
32:48
it depends on what you're looking for and that's I think that's why I wrote the book because I think people are
32:54
coming and looking for so many different things and the narrative that's like in
33:00
the mainstream media is kind of like well if you're not like a diagnosed depressed like clinically depressed
33:07
person or whatever like it's still bad and you shouldn't do it and yada yada and I don't think that's true I think
33:13
that it can help anyone if they're open to it um and that it's like a really
33:20
I don't know it's a really big experience that I think can just help you be more self-aware and kind and
33:27
everyone should if that's what they want they should try it right and I think that's where it is
33:33
I think that's where uh where the person has to be open
33:40
to it and and and hopefully they would release all these
33:46
um I guess these I guess stigma around
33:52
um how they feel about it because I I can't imagine uh you know taking
33:58
mushrooms and then also still thinking that there there may be something bad
34:04
that happened to them you know what I mean like I don't I don't I don't see
34:09
that but um I mean I remember the first time that that I tried them I it was
34:17
kind of a a random moment uh a friend of mine was like hey you want to try
34:22
something like sure all right uh I'll I'll try them like it was just
34:28
out of nowhere because I was like you know what I'm I'm not gonna go searching for these um I'm not I'm not gonna go ask around
34:35
but uh they just popped in my hand and I was like okay
34:40
cool so I mean I took him and it was freaking amazing like I I kind of just
34:46
like uh as I was eating them I I was I was like you know what okay everything's
34:51
gonna be fine I just breathe um I did absolutely no zero research uh
34:58
about them so um I didn't uh I didn't I didn't have the
35:04
information that I had now but um I don't know like it it still ended
35:10
up being a very good experience let's see I mean you've read my books so you
35:16
know but my first experience was very similar and it was still so powerful and
35:21
beautiful um it was so eye-opening it was like oh my God yes I knew this place existed
35:28
somewhere I'm glad I found it you know absolutely yes it could be like a
35:33
homecoming it's really beautiful it makes me just feel really correct like not like
35:39
correcting the world like correct with myself you know like finally like oh
35:44
everything makes sense and yeah it's really that's my favorite it only makes
35:50
sense yeah it all that that makes sense every time it makes sense that realization hey like
35:57
that it was like oh whoa hold on and then five minutes later oh oh my God that that makes sense too
36:05
hold on but yeah those those little realization moments like along the way
36:14
um or it's it's amazing I don't know like how do we how do we get somebody to
36:20
be open to that when they have a negative when they have negative thoughts about it already
36:26
it's hard I guess I still haven't figured that out yet you know it's hard to explain to people before they've done
36:33
it isn't it it's like kind of impossible I don't know it's a good question I I
36:39
was that person because I mean we we've been together for almost four years and you know he used to tell me about his
36:45
trips and this and that and I was like I think one of our one of our first can I say this on air like one of our one of
36:52
our first dates I picked her up and I I stopped by uh to to pick up a bag of
36:57
mushrooms and I was like hey you want to see what these they you want to see what they look like
37:03
but it took me almost four years well yeah about four years to kind of finally
37:08
you know give in and and again I think I think it just has to be you have to be
37:14
ready for it um you have to want it right because after after that trip it was
37:20
like a really long trip I think it was like eight hours that we like tripped and it was beautiful we cried we danced
37:26
we wrote We like everything you know and and all I know I I I trust me and after
37:33
I was like I wanted to tell everybody and I and I was like I feel like a crazy
37:39
person that's just like hey believe me believe me but I that's how I felt like I wanted to tell everybody how amazing
37:45
it was and how like not scary it was and the next day you feel amazing and
37:51
energized and happy and things click and for me to try to tell people because I did a couple like of my friends I even
37:58
called like two of my aunts and I was like please don't tell my mom but let me tell you because I have to tell you
38:04
and they were just like okay we support you we won't do it but we support you and I'm like all right like I I'm
38:10
serious about this but no I feel like for me that's the feeling that I got right after yeah definitely it's such a
38:19
beautiful feeling too I was pretty young when I first tried it but I was the same way I was like a senior in high school
38:26
like 17 I think and yeah I was then I got all my friends to try it I was like
38:31
you guys there's this amazing big place we could go to where magic is real
38:38
and everything makes sense and they were like No And I was like yeah
38:44
but yeah I was a bit young it was fun coming back or like you know we under like understanding it more like
38:50
intellectually um doing all that research and everything and figure it felt like I was figuring it out when I was writing the
38:57
book and starting to report on it before that and it's been such a uh yeah
39:02
sometimes I can forget that initial feeling and Ah that's a good reminder I
39:09
appreciate you telling me that story because it is like that and sometimes I forget that's who I'm talking to and I
39:15
do these things or other things you know and it's so true it's a beautiful place
39:21
and I'm glad people are opening up to it you know and like it's being decriminalized
39:26
across the U.S and just more people are talking about it in this way and it's
39:32
really exciting I do think it's it's a good thing it's not like
39:37
I don't know not that even other drugs are like bad or whatever but it's it is
39:43
a little different it is just like and you this the next day too you feel
39:49
so good it's even not like um alcohol or even like LSD I get like
39:54
so tired the next day and like or alcohol I'm such a mess I can't have more than like two drinks and I'm a mess
40:01
now and ah yeah I know it's it's an exciting
40:06
time I'm really glad that the World's opening up to it it makes you wonder like why now but we do have so many
40:13
things to deal with so it yeah like feels pretty Cosmic
40:19
yeah it it's been since like I want to say what like 1960s
40:24
eight something like that that they they stopped clinical trials of of psilocybin
40:31
oh I think you're right that's the year or right around then it was yeah I have
40:38
the exact year in the book I think the Controlled Substances Act it was like 1972 72 yeah but before that it started
40:47
to become illegal and they stopped studies yeah it was right around that it's in the Jim fatiman's book too yeah
40:53
exactly which was in in the the cool thing about when I started uh reading
40:58
all these books was that like they were all like of course they were transparent with the information but like
41:06
um like all these timelines really like matched up and like even I think you had
41:12
some sighted words from from fatiman's book and I was like oh my gosh like I
41:18
it's like it's a whole puzzle piece like it's it's history it's psychology it's
41:25
uh mycology right uh and and uh just science and
41:31
um all these different things all talking about like this same thing and I
41:36
don't know I was like I'm super excited I I if not more now than I was when I
41:43
first started um started reading about these substances and and learning about
41:49
them and and uh chasing information I want to say about these things and just
41:55
like Amber said like I I still I I don't I probably won't ever stop talking about
42:03
uh mushrooms or or psilocybin or any type of plant medicine because I'd I
42:08
don't know like people need to know like they they they they they every person needs to experience this I I feel
42:16
everyone who wants to and if everybody wants you don't want to yeah we just need to change their mind we we said one
42:24
time we were tripping and we were you know I mean we're we're a couple so we you know we were hashing out you know
42:30
just a couple things and you know love and everything and then at the end I was like you know what they should put
42:36
people that like really hate each other or have a lot of issues in one room and
42:42
give them mushrooms I'm like I'm sure everything will clear up and and that's how I feel like it is it's like therapy
42:48
like it helps you work through things even with yourself or with someone that
42:54
you're there doing it with it is it can it's it's I know it can it
42:59
could be fun too right and I kind of love those moments when you're with a loved one and you're hashing things I know exactly what you meantly did yes
43:06
those are my favorite moments it's usually like after the come up right and you get through all the kind of like
43:12
nasty I do hate the come up and I I do like to warn people like just just bear
43:17
with me this first like hour it's gonna be fine because it can be kind of just
43:22
like you know a bit nauseous a bit like anxious but then once you like kind of
43:28
arrive at that place um oh it's so beautiful one of my oldest
43:34
friends and I who I actually from the beginning my in the beginning of my book when I talk about my first
43:40
mushroom trip and I say goodbye to my friend in his driveway and I go home and then I end up having my big experience
43:48
um we're still we're still really close we've been friends since the fourth grade and um he comes down to visit me
43:54
like once a year and we do usually indulge in a few grams somewhere
43:59
beautiful like we'll go with Beach or something and we'll just like talk and be silly you know or make up stories
44:04
like look at the stars and make up our own mythologies or just like it's just
44:09
so beautiful we can talk about anything and with my my partner too my husband like we you know we love going into that
44:16
space together we don't do it that often but a few times a year we love going
44:21
camping um Building A Fire inviting some friends maybe and just like taking a few grams
44:29
and just like connecting and just being open and silly or hashing things out and
44:35
it's it's just really special place and I'm so glad we can go to together
44:40
do you think that um there I mean of course your environment has uh has some significance
44:49
to your psychedelic trip do you do you do you think more or less that uh you
44:56
know having experience inside versus outside is better or vice versa do you have uh do you have a thought on that
45:03
yeah that's a bit it's a good question I personally think that like
45:09
folks should be comfortable you know wherever you feel really safe and comfortable especially for like your
45:15
earlier experiences um that's the most important my partner
45:21
will disagree he will tell you he has to be outside he hates being inside when we
45:26
trip he thinks he's just like he feels clustered from it like the walls are coming in he's just like no we have to
45:32
and I do I do also like being outside it can just be like
45:37
you do get that like connection to Nature feeling like I love looking at the stars or fire or if it's in the day
45:45
you know and you're in a beautiful place and you can just kind of Marvel at the grass so the way the light hits the
45:51
leaves and it just can really connect with nature and it just feels all very
45:56
natural and right but I think folks need to decide for themselves I don't know like I like having a beautiful outdoor
46:03
place with a comfortable inside like available okay like if you have like so there's this
46:11
hotel that my partner and I really like um on the oaxacan coast that just has
46:16
these really beautiful views of the sea and these like big pretty Gardens you
46:21
feel like kind of private from the other rooms you can't like see them because there's all this Lush like tropical plants
46:28
um and then inside it's comfortable there's a nice bed we have a private bathroom there's even an air conditioner so like we spend most of the time
46:36
outside talking and looking at the trees and it's beautiful but like if you want to go lay in the bed you can right you
46:43
don't have to pee in the woods like you know things like that are kind of nice but I'm an outdoor person in general so
46:51
I would I vote for outside okay you got two votes for for outside
46:57
okay yeah I mean most of my experiences have been inside
47:04
uh at night and and I'm I'm still planning for that big experience outside
47:15
yeah and that's kind of it can write if you don't live somewhere I mean I think that's hard like I'm from
47:21
a city right I guess that like you're not gonna go to a public park you know you need to find like a private place
47:26
and you can't like you don't want to drive your car there's like a lot of variables so I get it's harder but when
47:33
you find that special spot it's it's nice you have like this little camping spot we love it's always super private
47:40
but I'm a really private person I really don't want to see anyone when I'm in that space it just like bugs me out I
47:47
don't want to like have to wave just so I don't know I can do right but I don't want to if I can help I don't want to
47:53
see people I really don't I thought I was the only one because a last trip
47:59
that I had um people arrived where we were at and I was like uh
48:07
and the vibe gets weird yeah they're so nice they're people that I have been in
48:13
my life I've known for years right yes I can conversate everything and it just happened and I was like I don't want to
48:19
talk talk I don't want to say hi I don't want to have to entertain anyone like I don't know it was just like and and
48:25
girls like but but you talk to me and I'm like yeah but it just feels so different like and and I felt really bad
48:32
that I felt that but I just couldn't entertain someone and especially you're
48:39
just not I agree me too that actually happened to me a couple years ago my friends and I
48:47
were at a beach house and like half of us took a little bit and the other half did it and even though they're my best
48:54
they're all like two of my best friends was my best friend from New York and my best friend from Mexico and they love each other and it's like a good time
49:00
we're spending all day at the beach but yeah when some people weren't shipping
49:05
and then I felt bad and I couldn't like translate and go back and forth as easily like I was the middle man right I
49:11
was like the and I just couldn't I was like you guys I'm sorry like not right now but they got it they didn't care but
49:18
it was like there was just too many variables to keep track of I just wanted to go with the like mushroom flow you
49:25
know what I mean yeah man I can I can't imagine trying to host something like
49:32
that and then going back and forth and translating too I'm like I think brain
49:37
only works in one language when I'm tripping is it usually Spanish
49:42
or is it English it it varies it varies oh my God that's cool that's cool
49:49
um Michelle said what would you say for some of our listeners that you know don't know
49:55
um a lot about um psychedelics and mushrooms like what what do you say are some benefits for us
50:01
or for for them um kind of doing um psychedelics or mushrooms yeah I mean
50:07
we've definitely talked about a bunch of them I think being just more open and honest and
50:12
self-aware with yourself is a big one I think that's how it helps me the most it's kind of like it knocks down all
50:20
your like [ __ ] filters and you can kind of just get in touch with just like what you really care about or who you
50:26
really are or what you know like when everything else is Stripped Away like what's left and I think that's a really
50:32
beautiful thing to learn about yourself um it can also help you connect with
50:38
loved ones right it can help you and they also like therapeutically there are
50:43
all these um benefits there's so much more to it like with all the scientific studies and
50:49
everything I'm not even super up to date right now on but there's so many coming
50:55
out and it's really beautiful um I think that like if you're looking
51:01
for something that mushrooms might do it you know like do some homework but like I do feel like they're not a cure-all
51:09
definitely not but I do think that like modern life is just like really
51:14
stressful and we live in a very weird time and we're dealing with so much all
51:20
the time and it's really kind of nice to know that there's this pretty easy to
51:25
get or to grow substance that grows all over the world and you just eat a few
51:32
dried grams of them or even less even like micro dosing or everyone's different with their dosage and I
51:38
respect that but um that you just eat a little bit of this natural fungi and you can
51:46
you can kind of like breathe you can go to this really just like pure space
51:51
that's not super like um inundated with like all the stresses
51:57
of modern life and all the other stuff you worry about you can be in the moment
52:02
just with yourself and who you're with the place you're in and it's really great to know that that
52:08
that's there it's not really an Escape right because you're still you you don't lose control you don't go somewhere else
52:14
if you take really high doses I've heard it can be a little and close your eyes
52:20
and it can be a little bit like another place but I've never even gone like that that deep like but I I think there's so
52:28
many benefits but I do think it can just help you get in touch with who you are and what you want to be and you can you
52:35
kind of bring that spirit with you back into the world and and and along with the benefits how
52:42
how also important is to is the integration period after your experience
52:49
well if you are doing mushrooms for some kind of um like therapeutic reason or if your
52:55
intention is like deeper like more specific um then yeah then integration is
53:03
important and I think integration just like tripping or just like what you're looking for is different for everyone I
53:10
have a lot of advice in the book on on ways to integrate but basically we mean right like
53:17
figuring out what your lessons or your realizations were and how you can apply
53:25
them to your life or to your intention um and there's a lot to be said about
53:30
that it's really powerful I think it is really it's not just like take the mushroom and change right take the
53:37
mushrooms see how you have to change and then the integration part is is making
53:43
those changes or doing whatever it is that you know maybe you think is making
53:48
you unhappy or a little sick or like whatever it could be so many things right it can be I need to exercise more
53:55
I need to call my mom more it could be so many yeah absolutely
54:01
um but it's listening and following through that's hard that's the hardest part it seems really easy and like
54:07
powerful when you're on mushrooms you're like oh the answer is just calling my mom and I know that's it that's right
54:13
right but then when it comes down to it and you're like I should really call her
54:19
today like you gotta do it so I mean
54:25
um with that uh wow my next question was about integration also but
54:32
um uh man I missed it uh it integration is
54:38
uh maybe uh to Define it right Michelle is uh integrating what you learned in
54:47
your or what you experienced during your psychedelic trip and applying that to your everyday life did I get that
54:54
correct I think yeah that's what it means to me anyway okay and sometimes um
55:00
and I explained in the book like sometimes you still don't know right you come out of the trip and you're like
55:06
wait I didn't get an announced I was looking for an answer and I still don't have it and I think
55:11
um you can still kind of like use that experience to figure it out and there's
55:16
you know if people like to do all sorts of different things and I have my ideas in the book like how you can still come
55:23
like digest and figure out your trip and you know walking in nature or yoga or
55:31
like you know there's all different ways that are kind of just like meditation like ways to clear your mind or get back
55:37
in touch with yourself and with your intentions or with nature right
55:42
um inspire all the kinds of things that mushrooms make you feel like how can you get to that place just in you know on a
55:49
weeknight and um and you can still kind of find answers there if you just just thinking
55:56
about it right keep digesting it don't just like throw it under the bed as like a weird night like keep
56:03
thinking about a journal about it that's my big thing I'm a writer right but of course
56:10
um after a trip or I like to try to journal a little before kind of see how I'm feeling what my intentions are do a
56:17
little bit after maybe the day after if I'm really tired and then come back to
56:22
it maybe before my next trip read what I was feeling last time you can kind of see how much you've grown or what's
56:29
happened since then or what you were looking for before and what you found after and how different they were or
56:35
whatever it can be really interesting so from uh from there
56:42
um what what did you what did you pull up here oh number I'm I'm just I'm just don't
56:48
mind me oh okay sorry she she pulled up something up there
56:53
um yeah because I seen I seen this uh this photo it was like this photo like
56:59
this meme looking thing and it it said that um it said that like when you change when
57:07
you take mushrooms they don't they don't change you they they show you the way to
57:12
change right and I believe there's there's also like a there's a comedian that did a bit
57:18
about it it's like if you take mushrooms and you're an [ __ ]
57:23
um you're you're still you're still gonna be an [ __ ] you're just High yeah right I forget who do you remember
57:31
who it is I I remember thinking like I heard it gets it yeah exactly that's when I heard that
57:38
when I heard that uh that audio bit I was just like yeah he's he's tripped before and he understands it man and he
57:45
understands it but it's completely true can we look that up can you look that up Amber I I
57:52
want to hear that clip but um it's it's exactly true because I mean you I mean
57:59
that's what I first thought I was like uh like even before uh trying
58:04
um psilocybin like I I was like okay like am I gonna have this experience in the
58:10
completely change as a person I think you only you learn by experience right
58:16
like you're if you're the [ __ ] and and you take mushrooms and you can still be an [ __ ] after that or anybody else
58:24
can I know if you're an [ __ ] I go I'm sorry not everybody's an [ __ ] but you
58:30
know what I mean well you know what could happen is maybe the mushrooms will help you realize that you're really
58:35
exactly and you could then you can start working it out
58:40
yeah totally but you know I've had people tell me that's part of what they're afraid of they're like well I
58:46
don't wanna change gonna be a totally different person and I look at them I'm like that's
58:53
so who works but okay like I get where you're coming from of course they hear a
58:58
story of someone who did right they're like well my friend's kid after he took mushrooms he like I don't know moved in
59:06
a van and drove across the country and never came back I guess that's probably the story my mom tells me oh yeah she
59:11
moved to Mexico and she never came here but I don't know I think I heard that one too
59:18
but yeah it's it's it's not that simple right I mean you can come back feeling a
59:25
lot lighter or something yeah but a totally different person I mean I wish there was a drug for that I still don't
59:31
think another question too and and um
59:36
um and then uh we can we can wrap it up but so I
59:42
I I'm not trying to make a fat joke about myself right now but I I'm
59:48
I'm thinking as as like maybe I'm getting older than uh the or maybe it's
59:54
the there's all these different variables that I'm thinking about right it could be it could be a weight gain it
1:00:00
could be maybe the mushrooms that I've taken have uh are less concentrated with
1:00:07
psilocybin but is there weight mass or is this body mass compared to to
1:00:13
psilocybin is there any correlation with that do you know I think there is I mean
1:00:20
for I know when they do the clinical studies with isolated psilocybin and not
1:00:25
mushrooms they do calculate your dose like by your weight okay however I also
1:00:32
I I don't know I think it really depends on a lot of things like so I don't I'm smaller but I need a lot
1:00:40
of mushrooms to feel it like it's like my brain is thicker so I like my skull is thick and I need a lot so my brain's
1:00:46
fat it's not me it's just my brain okay it's a compliment
1:00:52
I don't know or like people have thicker personalities or something I need like a lot to crack through me okay and I have
1:00:59
some friends who are a lot bigger than me and who are really sensitive we also might have a tolerance even though we're
1:01:05
not like eating them every day right we know what to expect and maybe we need a little more to get to that place but
1:01:13
mushrooms also really vary in strength and if they're not that fresh I think
1:01:18
they lose their strength okay sometimes it can like deteriorate yeah that's
1:01:23
happened to me or I've eaten some mushrooms that I've had around for a couple months and I don't really have
1:01:28
much of an experience so definitely there's a lot there's variables right magic it's just it's the magic okay I
1:01:36
have one more question let's go with that sure I'm here what's your question
1:01:42
I guess for me like I I know that there's indigenous tribes like in Mexico
1:01:47
that do use you know psychedelics and things like but are there still like is there still
1:01:53
a lot now like to date that still use it like ceremonial wise or or on a daily
1:01:59
basis or or how well yeah realm definitely so in Oaxaca mostly is
1:02:09
where well actually that's not even true like there's there's there's other groups in other places too I think
1:02:16
um but the I've gone to one city in Oaxaca in the mountains
1:02:23
where Maria Sabina is from and mushrooms are still a very big part of their
1:02:28
culture and tradition it's amazing it's really beautiful it is ceremonial
1:02:34
um it is mostly for like serious problems you know it is like medicine
1:02:39
it's really serious medicine um I have a bit in my book where my
1:02:45
source a friend of mine who's from that up there um the Mazda Tech Community uh he told
1:02:51
me they did a mushroom ceremony when his mom was diagnosed with cancer
1:02:57
um and she also went and had a surgery like in Puebla I'm pretty sure but she did both she had a ceremony with her
1:03:03
family because that's also the traditional way you don't go alone like you usually go with your whole family and you all eat the mushrooms together
1:03:09
and like feel the spirit of the mushrooms and it's all very deeply connected to their spirituality with the
1:03:16
mountains and there's like Guardians and the mountains and the water and everything it's really beautiful
1:03:23
um and yet he told me that after they did that mushroom ceremony and his mom had surgery her cancer was gone and it's
1:03:30
still gone yeah the power of intention I think and
1:03:36
you know it's a lot to it but there are other groups too and and it's like
1:03:41
becoming more popular again so it's like also there are you know people that
1:03:46
maybe haven't like communities that maybe haven't done it so much but there's more interest now and they're
1:03:52
doing it more and things like that it works like that sometimes right like ebb and flow
1:03:58
um but definitely it's really beautiful and interesting and fascinating to learn about
1:04:03
Michelle do you have any um uh do you have anything that you're working on currently now uh I hope in the future to
1:04:12
like any other uh part maybe my psilocybin companion part two maybe
1:04:19
I'm not working on that yet but I do keep keep thinking about I would like to
1:04:24
do like maybe a second edition update the research
1:04:29
some more that I've learned but it's not in the works I haven't um I'm not officially working on that I
1:04:36
have been trying to write a novel oh nice nice yeah it's like where my head
1:04:42
has been at recently is very psychedelic inspired that's awesome but it is
1:04:47
science fiction and maybe involves contacting aliens with DMT maybe
1:04:55
still finger it all out but that is awesome it's just a work in progress but
1:05:02
it's really been getting my like juices flowing again so it's exciting and yeah thank you how much um how much uh DMT
1:05:10
experience do you have one last question I'll let you go I promise we're like one one
1:05:23
oh wow okay and every time it's been totally batshit crazy and different and
1:05:29
it's really fascinating and it just I don't know it's just this endlessly
1:05:35
interesting world that I am terrified of
1:05:41
that is just getting my creative juices flowing it really feels like you go kind of somewhere else and there are
1:05:48
things there that have nothing to do with you that have their own motives and it's just this wild weird little world
1:05:54
it's not really like a very therapeutic thing for me although I've read there's some studies coming out that is helping
1:06:00
people with like depression and stuff wow okay but for me it's just this very interesting weird very weird place that
1:06:08
is just inspiring me creatively to pursue more science fiction so what
1:06:14
would you what would you tell somebody right now uh that is preparing themselves for
1:06:21
their first DMT trip
1:06:28
okay I mean I don't know just it's like not I
1:06:34
don't know it's it's a little scary I think that it's scary but try not to let your fear get
1:06:41
the best of you I suppose because I've just kind of been dealing with my fear I think every time I've broken through
1:06:47
it's just kind of like DMT being like you're still [ __ ] terrified and I'm like I know
1:06:53
and they're like just let that go and we can show you more stuff and I'm like I can't let go and order so I don't know I
1:07:01
don't have any answers that I'm not a pro but it's exciting it's weird it's
1:07:06
it's if you want something totally different it's DMT have you had when the
1:07:12
times that you have like broken through is someone there with you or is just you completely
1:07:17
I yeah no I have met like a couple entities they're kind of more like
1:07:23
presents than I like see like an alien or something oh okay and it's kind of
1:07:28
like it's hard to tell if it's like me thinking or it's like another voice in my head because it is like my voice but
1:07:36
it feels kind of other it's it's hard to explain but I've never really had that on
1:07:42
mushrooms you know I don't really like see a lot of things things like breathe and move around but I'm not the kind
1:07:47
that like has a spirit animal with me all the time or something so yeah and
1:07:52
there are people and I that's cool but yeah I'm I don't know I'm still pretty grounded even when I eat mushrooms but
1:07:58
DMT is something else and the times that you you did try the DMT were you with
1:08:05
with the group was it just you and somebody else or uh I mean how did how
1:08:11
did that I'm looking into doing a fiber Mayo ceremony here but no I've just um been
1:08:18
doing it here on my home um yeah I tell my partner what I'm doing
1:08:24
but actually I like to be alone because you are just kind of like you just kind of close your eyes it's like five minutes it's all very quick I tell my
1:08:31
husband what I'm doing and he's like okay babe I'll see you in like 20 minutes I'm like yeah I love you for
1:08:37
dinner have dinner ready when uh when I'm done
1:08:44
that's awesome Michelle thanks for coming out and and and and thank you for
1:08:50
hanging out with me for about an hour um me and Amber so go ahead and share uh
1:08:57
what you got going on yeah no thank you again so much for inviting me you and Amber I really
1:09:03
appreciate it um my book is your psilocybin mushroom companion it's available
1:09:09
everywhere Amazon um bookshop.org I sell it also on my
1:09:15
website if you're in the US Michelle ginnickian.com and that's also where you can find my past articles other podcasts
1:09:22
I've done um in my Instagram all my social media is looked up linked up on there so lots
1:09:29
of good stuff on there contact form as well if you're looking to get in touch
1:09:34
and yeah that's about it for now working on this other book but it's gonna take a
1:09:39
while so I'm excited for that oh thank you I'm really excited
1:09:45
it's a work in progress I'm like learning how to write a novel at the same time oh yeah okay yeah because
1:09:50
you're used to being a journalist right it's totally different type of style
1:09:56
transition I'm liking it and
1:10:01
the things too and yeah most active on my Instagram so I'll be posting updates
1:10:06
and um other you know opportunities to see me speak or whatever up on there so when
1:10:13
are you back in the States I don't know yet but I might be doing
1:10:18
actually I might be doing an event in Southern California this spring or summer I'll definitely let you know but
1:10:25
it's not confirmed so okay I won't I'm dropped that one quite yet I might be
1:10:31
coming to the San Diego area nice uh in June but we'll see yeah
1:10:38
awesome uh thanks again Michelle for coming out and and doing the podcast I
1:10:43
appreciate it thank you I thank you so much the Mindless [Music]